To think my son should not be asked to write F*ing poetry in year 1 for homework

[Reallytired]

I feel its too soon. My son cannot spell and I would prefer it if he was given spellings for home work.

Frankly I think he should concentrate on basic literacy skills and hand writing.

Once a child can spell they can CHOOSE the word they want to use in writing. They are not inhibited by what words they know to how to spell.

A child who struggles with spelling has their creativity seriously hindered. No one is able to read their work.

I have been doing Ruth Miskin's Superphonics Spellings with my son. It gives strageries for spelling words and is make a huge difference to my son.

stuffitllama - just want to ask

5 yr old children can't read a dot of music or play a musical instrument profficiently but they are asked to compose and perform music compositions. Most do this quite readily with enthusiasm. What is the difference with being asked to use language to create adnother artform? (I am not suggesting that a 5 yr old should be able to write and spell correctly merely enjoy the creative process)

5 yr olds are also asked to make marks/symbols to record their compositions and use this record to play their compositions.

I think RT responded really well ahead of your question.
Perhaps they can say what they want to in an oral poem, but if they can't write and spell they can't use the words they want to use in a written poem.

Anyway I have no problem with them enjoying the creative process, if they can. But it shouldn't be homework.

I think this is one that will just go round and round in circles as people have many different ideas on what should be taught and when. People also have many opinions with reference to homework, some will say not enough whilst some will say too much. Some will also say how fab a poem, will some will say oh bloody hell not poetry.

There is no right or wrong answer to this.

I agree that it will go round in circles. I disagree that there is no right or wrong answer!

There are a number of cogent arguments against giving poetry as homework in Y1. There are no (so far) cogent arguments in favour. All the wonderful things that creative work can achieve can
a. be achieved in class, or through activities generated at home
b. be seriously undermined by giving it as homework risking pressure, disappointment and frustration.

Against that, you would need to find a really seriously good reason for giving a child poetry as homework in order to be right about this.

If home work is to be given in year 1, I think it should be activites like reading that really require one to one attention.

Helping a child learn spellings, their tables and hand writing is hard to do with 30 children. Extra one to one attention makes a huge difference to any child.

Can you not find a simple poem example (or I expect they've read some in class) about an animal or train and just rework that . Don't fuss about spelling htis is all about how the words sound and spelling is a bonus or cna be doen once he has drafted it. Do it on pc if needs be so he can play around with it.

Copying your text stuffit to demonstrate that the flip side of the argument is easier

"I agree that it will go round in circles. I disagree that there is no right or wrong answer!

There are a number of cogent arguments FOR giving poetry as homework in Y1. There are no (so far) cogent arguments NOT in favour. All the wonderful things that creative work can achieve can
a. be achieved in class, or through activities generated at home and suggested by the teacher as what we call homework which would be particularly useful for those families who require a little more direction in helping their children at home
b. be seriously undermined enthralled by giving it as homework risking pressure, disappointment and frustration. demonstrating the joy of creativity and acheivement, having fun with a parent in rhyming silly words, developing a sense of achievement in making

Against that, you would need to find a really seriously good reason for giving a child poetry as homework in order to be right about this.

I actually think against this you would need to find a really seriously good reason for giving children homework that is stultified and dull such as spellings and times tables. The benefit of a creative assignment is that it is free to interpreted and developed based on individual ability.

Completely agree with RT's 21.05 post.

I think there is a level of agreement on this post though. Many think that homework isn't appropriate for 5 and 6 year olds.

Anyway, I would suggest that RT practices spellings and writing with her son and submits the result as a poem.

Bees Bees Bees
Trees Trees Trees
Green Green Green.

I love Spring.

My ds is not in the least bothered by using words he doesn't know how to spell, thank the Lord, or he's write nothing at all. Spelling he is bad at, but he has a pretty good imagination and loves writing stories and poems.

"Last week he had to write a different poem and even though its was all his words he did not get his star because I wrote out the poem.

This week my son has written the poem, he has plenty of good ideas, but I know he will not get a sticker because his writing looks like a dog's breakfast. His poem even rhymes."

I didn't read RT's posts properly - he has written the poem already.

It appears that the teacher is asking them to write poetry, but marking them on handwriting. RT, is not unreasonably asking why the teacher is not then concentrating on improving his handwriting.

DS knows his spelling is bad and his handwriting is awful. He's not daft.

But he also knows that when he writes an interesting story or a clever poem he will get praised even if you have to read it aloud to work out what he is trying to say.

Which is why he enjoys this type of homework more than learning spellings.

What a lovely world some of us live in, with parents who not only are willing to help with homework but can, who are enthralled by having lots of marvellous ideas they cannot express, who are never discouraged by a teacher saying one thing and meaning another.

Spellings are easy, so easy, to run through at home, and so time-consuming for a teacher to work through in a class of 30. Then we can use all those lovely words in class to write stories and poems.

I agree a lot of people do find learning spelling stultifying, which is why lots of people can't spell. But I guess if they're full of lots of lovely creative ideas it doesn't really matter.

Twiglett, I don't know what you mean by "what we call homework". What do you mean by that? If you are suggesting that it is an optional "fun" activity then why give it as homework? Why teach a child at the age of five that homework is optional?

Do you deny that there is a serious risk of pressure, frustration and disappointment? Of course there is! Why take those risks at such a young age!

It's so unnecessary to take those risks. All those word games, all that fun, all that creativity, can all take place, but there is no place for it in homework. Only in the most ideal world, which sadly we don't have. Children who are disadvantaged in any way can lose out, and it is mainly the fortunate who do well. In an area where this is not vital, you are setting some children up for failure every time and it is SO unnecessary.

In case you think I have a vested interest, or an axe to grind over my own children's achievements -- no. We too love silly word games, write fun poems for homework, have read poetry at bedtime, and been to classical concerts and so on. I mean not all the time, but it's all part of the rich tapestry etc etc. I think it is all great fun, and a great way to explore language. But word games can descend like fog over children who can't spell the words in the first place.

Did you see my analogy about Les Dawson? That's just it -- that's exactly what I mean. Give them the tools.

'Maths is all shopping and cooking, and geometrical shapes are never skateboard ramps or sports pitches'....my blood is boiling at the idea that this is somehow Unmanly. Speaking as someone whose (female) children have just returned from the supermarket with their father.

I really don't get it. My ds is one of those who has problems with handwriting and spelling. But no problems with communication and expression.

Of course he still learns his spellings, and we battle onwards, but to leaven it with something which he can do, well, it makes all the difference to us.

However, if the teacher is making the child feel he can't express himself if he can't spell the words correctly, then that I would be upset about.

Fair enough Mother Inferior, please don't let your blood boil. Include the shopping and cooking, but include the skateboard ramps too.

Maths has become in very large part "story" problems. Children who may not excel with words have an opportunity to do well, traditionally, in the number area. But because so much of maths is now word-based, they are losing out here too.

Maybe we don't have an argument here. This is my position, don't know about RT sorry.

Creativity with words is great and children should have the opportunity to exercise it.
Reading and spelling are more important in the early stages of education.
Children should not be taught that spelling is unimportant or that homework is optional.
Creative exercise can be achieved in many different ways and need not be included as homework.
Creative homework causes problems for children who are deprived of parental input.
Homework which highlights the very profound differences between children in the same class but of very different ages should not be given. At Reception, Y1 and Y2 that matters.

Maybe we don't have an argument. Except I do back the OP. And yes, poetry is lovely.

by the way have a great silly word game

there are supposed to be dozens of letter combinations that make the sound "or" (aw etc). We got to about 15 but there are supposed to be masses more.

I think your basic premise in all this stuffitllama is just so infuriatingly incorrect.

But I'm afraid I can't be bothered to go round in circles any more. Life's too short. If you're happy with this attitude for your children then fine. Best of luck.

Oh gosh Twiglett I don't think you even understand what I've been saying, for example, I don't think you know what IS the basic premise which informs my argument. We're probably closer together in theory than you imagine. We probably do the same things with our children. Actually I'm beginning to wonder if you've even read my posts -- just got "crammer" stuck in your head.

Never mind. We won't agree on this thread. Children are let down by the theory that imagination is more important than knowledge. It's a damn shame.

I think Reallytired has left the building

And who can blame her.. some of us became most pompous

(in case you come back RT have one more practical tip

it is allowing yr son to dictate to you
you write down his words
he copies them out

his ideas
his writing

it's a lot of support though and not easy with lots of other children milling around)

Interested to know, do people think that perfect spelling can be developed without any spelling tests ever? Can't help thinking that even now there are some words that I have to look up and just learn.

Perhaps, if he learns the power of language through writing poetry, he won't need to put swearwords into thread titles later in life.