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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

A moral question for you all

482 replies

WhaleSharkBootySweat · 22/08/2023 09:43

Imagine you go into a really nice small business selling either homewares or food. You pick something up that you really like, but it's the end of the month and you can't really afford it. What is the main reason that stops you from stealing it?

A.) Fear of getting caught, punished, criminal record, shame, losing your job
B.) Sympathy for the small business owner, not wanting them to lose money

Or something else.
For me it's massively more B but then I don't steal from chain stores, so I guess A must come into it then?
I just wonder where these moral decisions we make daily come from. Is it fear of repercussions or genuine moral compass? Why do a third of shoppers steal from self checkouts but wouldn't steal from a cashier at the till?
I think about the idea that if there wasn't law and order, then we would all steal and murder, but I genuinely believe that most of us wouldn't? I mean I've never felt compelled to, but why is that? Empathy?

OP posts:
BloodyHellKen · 22/08/2023 10:40

If I was so desperately short of money I was driven to theft it would be food I'd have my eye on, not homewares and even then I'd have to be absolutely, unbelievably desperate as stealing is just wrong OP.

I've lived on the breadline in my youth and I was never driven to theft because I was brought up to be an honest person.

Crazydoglady1980 · 22/08/2023 10:40

Because you are taught from a young age that you don’t steal, it is then somewhere that your brain doesn’t even consider because the answer has always been the same and the neural synopsis has now been severed.
That is why consistency is important as behaviour just becomes second if it is repeated enough.

butterpuffed · 22/08/2023 10:41

How can you say you're asking a moral question when you didn't include that it's theft , wrong to steal ?

Wishimaywishimight · 22/08/2023 10:41

It just wouldn't occur to me to steal, it really wouldn't!

wherethewaterisdarker · 22/08/2023 10:42

People just saying "it's wrong" - have you never stopped to think about WHY things are wrong?? So weird to me to have such an un-curious mind... I personally think it shows far more moral compass to examine our assumptions, rather than just blindly accept them.

Nanny0gg · 22/08/2023 10:44

JauntyJinty · 22/08/2023 09:45

From a small business both A and B

From a large corporation just A!

Doesn't matter if it's a large corp,

If you steal from anyone the owners pass the losses on to other customers in the form of increased prices.

So we all lose.

Stealing is wrong

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 22/08/2023 10:45

TibetanTerrah · 22/08/2023 09:52

It just wouldn't occur to me that stealing was an option Confused

If I couldn't afford it, I'd just wait til payday or not have it. Those are the options...

Yes I think this too - just wouldn’t occur as an option.

But also A, B and C!

viques · 22/08/2023 10:45

Dolores87 · 22/08/2023 09:57

From a small independent business morals stop me. From a large business with unethical practices then only the fear of being caught. I don't have a moral objection to stealing from unethical ceos who exploit their labour force.

So how does your moral compass work when it comes to a company that does most of its business through franchising its name? The parent company isn’t going to be affected by your theft, they will still make millions, but the franchisee will lose out twice, directly from your theft, and because it will still have to pay the franchise owner even if their profits are down because people keep stealing from them.

And what if the large company is run ethically, is it OK to steal from them, or do you not feel the slightest bit concerned that substantial small thefts over a period of time may force the company to rethink and reduce some of the ethical interventions they have in place to say, support the education of their overseas workers children , or provide free sanitary products to female staff.

Paulisexcluded · 22/08/2023 10:45

I wasn't well brought up and did often steal from large companies.

Politely, there are a lot of people on here with very little insight into the lives of others less fortunate than themselves.

Nanny0gg · 22/08/2023 10:45

wherethewaterisdarker · 22/08/2023 10:42

People just saying "it's wrong" - have you never stopped to think about WHY things are wrong?? So weird to me to have such an un-curious mind... I personally think it shows far more moral compass to examine our assumptions, rather than just blindly accept them.

Because I happen to think that it's wrong to take something that someone else owns.

Why do I have the right to it? I haven't made it or bought it or arranged for it to be there

Therefore, not mine

Mrpot80head · 22/08/2023 10:45

If I want it then I become a thieving horrible cunt let me ask you this you're walking in the woods and you find a case full of money do you steal it or leave it,my answer is I'm stealing it and hiding it elsewhere wait a year then I'm going back for it and tough titty on the person who lost or hid it there ,and that's my everlasting holiday sorted out and a place in the country
OR are you dumb enough to take to the police stn for a few quid reward and a good citizen medal ,I say screw that bullshit

Sallyh87 · 22/08/2023 10:45

I’m not sure it’s as easy to say ‘stealing is just wrong’, do you know it’s wrong because society tells you it is through rules or is it something that you inherently know is wrong.

I think if the question was about pirated movies and music (which loads of people used to use or buy) the answer would be less towards it’s just wrong. This was also equally stealing.

I don’t steal BTW 😂 but it’s an interesting question!

Rosscameasdoody · 22/08/2023 10:46

Icedlatteplease · 22/08/2023 09:47

C) it's just wrong, respect for other people and their property

I think your moral compass needs a reset

Why do you think that ? The OP was asking a question, not offering an opinion that either is right.

Lentilweaver · 22/08/2023 10:47

I think it's wrong. I would do it to save my own children from starving, but for no other reason. Not even at Tesco's.

TyrannosaurusSex · 22/08/2023 10:48

I mean - this is basically the existentialist question, is it not?

Do we have fundamental morals, guided by something other than simple human decision to follow some rules (eg by God)? Or do we decide our own morals and so are free to choose them as we think best?

I find it a bit disappointing so many are trying to shut down the debate, tbh. There is no 'end of' because all morals should be questioned regularly. As pp has said, homosexuality was once thought of as a fundamental wrong. Similarly, sex before marriage. Plus, morality is often society dependent with some societies following quite different moral codes.

To answer the OP, I really don't know. I am someone who feels a great deal of guilt if I do not follow my own moral code - which often seems to be harsher and more rigid than other people's (when it comes to my own behaviour). I had a spiritual upbringing, if not strictly religious. Mostly, I think guilt is why I don;t so some things. But where the guilt originates, I do not know!

luckylavender · 22/08/2023 10:49

I just wouldn't steal. No A or B

Bluebellsandharebells · 22/08/2023 10:50

It's wrong. End of.

Lentilweaver · 22/08/2023 10:50

@TyrannosaurusSex Homosexuality or pre-marital sex doesn't hurt anybody.

Anyway, in my case, I would just feel too guilty and anxious, so I would not do it. Admittedly, I have never been hungry, so I suppose that comes from privilege.

Rosscameasdoody · 22/08/2023 10:50

Mrpot80head · 22/08/2023 10:45

If I want it then I become a thieving horrible cunt let me ask you this you're walking in the woods and you find a case full of money do you steal it or leave it,my answer is I'm stealing it and hiding it elsewhere wait a year then I'm going back for it and tough titty on the person who lost or hid it there ,and that's my everlasting holiday sorted out and a place in the country
OR are you dumb enough to take to the police stn for a few quid reward and a good citizen medal ,I say screw that bullshit

And how are the two different ? In the latter example you’ve still taken something that’s not yours and disregarded the fact that you could hand it in for it to be returned to its’ rightful owner. Or indeed leave it where it is. Doesn’t make you any less of a thief than in the OP’s scenario.

itsmyp4rty · 22/08/2023 10:51

I was brought up to be an honest person so now it just comes naturally to me to be an honest person.

Andthereyougo · 22/08/2023 10:52

I just don’t steal. Full stop. I wouldn’t say something was faulty and it wasn’t if I bought online for instance. Life can be shitty enough without making it worse for someone.

Jumpingthruhoops · 22/08/2023 10:52

Icedlatteplease · 22/08/2023 09:47

C) it's just wrong, respect for other people and their property

I think your moral compass needs a reset

This! The thought of 'stealing' anything wouldn't enter my head. I'm actually quite shocked that this is a genuine post.

LakeTiticaca · 22/08/2023 10:53

Is it wrong to burgle the house of a poor person but OK to burgle the house of a rich person?

TyrannosaurusSex · 22/08/2023 10:53

Lentilweaver · 22/08/2023 10:50

@TyrannosaurusSex Homosexuality or pre-marital sex doesn't hurt anybody.

Anyway, in my case, I would just feel too guilty and anxious, so I would not do it. Admittedly, I have never been hungry, so I suppose that comes from privilege.

No, they don't - but I was simply trying to illustrate how societies view on morals changes over time.

The quesioning of them is always important (I think) - because the alternative is just to accept something is wrong and never think about why... and 'morals' have often been used by the wrong people for control.

Amethys · 22/08/2023 10:54

Integrity. If I stole, I would be a thief: a shitty person making the world worse.

Why would I want to be that? Just for some material item?

I’m proud to be the person I am. I work hard, am kind to others, and tough when needed. Why would I give up liking myself to be some shitty loser?