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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Lucy Letby should be made to attend court for the sentencing

641 replies

Viviennemary · 20/08/2023 22:06

I know there are other threads on this terrible case. But I just read she has refused to attend court for the sentencing which is to be on Monday morning. The judge said he does not have the power to force her to attend. Can't see she will ever be allowed out of prison. And rightly so.

OP posts:
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5
ohcrums · 21/08/2023 06:27

FlightoftheKakapo · 20/08/2023 22:38

I agree that her attendance is irrelevant. In a lot of ways I think her non attendance will give more airtime to the victim impact statements - rather than whether she still appears vanilla, beige (along with all the other media descriptions trotted out this week.)

Her sentence will be huge and given she’s been found guilty despite a defence that has meant bereaved parents, close colleagues etc have been put through court interrogation and reliving of their ordeals, I would doubt an appearance at sentencing would be a catalyst for an outpouring of remorse.

That's a good point well made

ohcrums · 21/08/2023 06:28

AllOfThemWitches · 21/08/2023 04:49

She's a serial killer, she probably gets off on hearing how her actions have impacted people's lives.

That was my thought too tb

Wsmi · 21/08/2023 06:35

What’s with the obsession with getting her to attend court. The public really are sheep. They just jump on whatever soundbite the news outlets put out there without engaging their brains.

The woman is a serial killer of babies. She’s hardly going to find the sentencing to be a moment that serves as some kind of retribution and justice. She’ll be serving the sentence whether she’s at the sentencing or not.

Fruitynutcase · 21/08/2023 06:43

Fiddlerdragon · 20/08/2023 22:17

I think she should have to attend the sentencing, but they shouldn’t be holding the sentencing for crimes like these the way that they do. It’ll be an absolute fucking circus with thousands of people turning up to gawp at the notorious child killer. This is a serious and sickening case involving the death and torture of multiple babies, and this woman is getting a sentence that will hopefully see her behind bars for the rest of her life. It’s not an entertaining day out for the masses who want to turn up for a bit of drama. The sentencing should be held in a private place, with only the relevant people in attendance.

You are right . Having to police this and then have it turn into an ugly violent spectacle.

Zuve · 21/08/2023 06:49

The court should be broadcast to get in her cell. She is obviously mentally ill, but some things have to take place to help heal the parents and all involved. In my view she is a psychopath

Whyohwhywyoming · 21/08/2023 06:53

But that’s just silly, it’s different in her case because she’s a serial killer but in general prison is extremely poor at reducing recidivism, adding on something punitive for no logical reason at the outset won’t make that system any better

Lwrenagain · 21/08/2023 07:00

The victims parents really do deserve to be heard and have their statements listened too.
I'm unsure if they'd remotely affect her negatively, since she enjoyed bathing in their grief anyway, but I hope they can still tell the world what this has done to them. I keep thinking of them all, how amazing they've been.
What do you even say? Sorry this happened, hope you're alright? There is fuck all anyone can do or say but I just pray they feel loved and supported.

I've had a baby last week at the other hosptial LL worked at, the staff are heavy with grief, from one's who knew her to students, you could sense the feeling of sadness.
This has been one of the most horrific cases I've ever seen.

I can think of high profile individual cases with the most sadistic and catastrophic deaths that we all know that leave everyone just hung out and devastated. Those cases were complete strangers have breakdowns over hearing details because they're so fucked up, yet this case has been scarier.

I don't agree we should drag her out, but I understand totally why people feel that way. Some cases where the perpetrator is just so evil, jail doesn't seem enough, people want blood.
It's not what we should aim for in society, but you cant blame people for wanting it.

Those beautiful baby's, its just so unimaginable to comprehend anyone could do that.

LaurelandHedgy · 21/08/2023 07:03

Some of you are seriously disturbed people. Dragging her by her hair; strapped to a board and ragged. It’s all gone a bit Jeremy Clarkson.

Yes, absolutely right. We should show Britain's worst child killer, murderer of tiny babies who were already fighting for their premature lives, a bit more compassion.

Whyohwhywyoming · 21/08/2023 07:04

Moomilk · 21/08/2023 04:19

What do you mean - made how?

handcuffed!!!! Dragged? God forbid.

so soft this country. Her refusing to leave her cell to bear witness to the effects of her actions is both a final insult and a further leveraging of power over those whose lives she has already devastated.

She killed innocent babies!! Let the parents say what they need!!! And sit there and deal with the whole world looking at your snivelling little face!!!!

But she might not do that. There have been plenty of instances where families have read victim impact statements in the presence of a grinning, belligerent convict. I’m sure she’s sorry she’s going to prison but she’s not going to care any more about those families and their babies than she did when she was attempting to kill them.

Chickentikka567 · 21/08/2023 07:08

Sorry but you can't force someone to watch or listen to something, it's not A Clockwork Orange.
As for the idea of using the parents as guards, great idea, let's allow them to potentially gain injuries.
The problem is some people on here want her in there because they want some drama, they want a bit of spectacle.

THisbackwithavengeance · 21/08/2023 07:09

What difference does it make to anyone if she attends sentencing or not?

Do we think she is going to break down, confess or apologise if she hasn't done so already?

User15387500 · 21/08/2023 07:17

JanetandJohn500 · 21/08/2023 05:07

I find this thread quite misogynistic. Force LL because she's forceable but I don't think people fully understand that this wouldn't be achievable with every prisoner and would probably only be achievable because she is a woman and down to her size. I am appalled by previous suggestions to use male guards or let the parents be the guards. Does that not make a mockery of the justice system? The 'revenge' for her crimes is life imprisonment, not using strength and power against her.
I think that 2-way cameras into her cell with the ability to 'mute' her but giving her no ability to mute the courtroom could be an alternative.
This is probably her last act of control. Ultimately, she's a coward and will spend the rest of her life in jail. Parents looking her in the eye as they state their trauma will just not be straightforward if she is not compliant.

Exactly

Whyohwhywyoming · 21/08/2023 07:19

im sure some of the parent: have spent a lot of time thinking about what they would do if they were her guard or imagining her being dragged into court. That’s fine, they’ve been through absolute horror and will be living with it for the rest of their lives - they don’t have to be “reasonable” - they’ve got the right to want as much vengeance as they like. The rest of us are meant to be “reasonable” which is why we have a legal system and changing it in this way would be purely motivated by emotion.

mrssunshinexxx · 21/08/2023 07:19

Of course she should have to stand there, she should lose all human rights, it's disgraceful

Blinky21 · 21/08/2023 07:23

Justice being served is the main thing, the obsession with a dependent being there feels performative and for the benefit of the baying media

Malificent1 · 21/08/2023 07:25

She doesn’t care about the victims or their families. She’s already made that very clear in court. She only cries for herself.

Never mind being given the choice to attend, she should be forced to stay away to give the parents their chance to speak about their babies, without all attention being on her. It’s time for the babies and their families now.

MagicClawHasNoChildren · 21/08/2023 07:27

Given how much time she spent trawling for reactions from parents on significant days, I'd have thought that hearing victim impact statements would be just about the biggest thrill she could get. I think it must be a tough inner battle for her, between wanting to preserve the illusion of her as perfect but also wanting to revel in the parents' pain. It's just that her ego has won out this time.

DisquietintheRanks · 21/08/2023 07:28

Hillcrest2022 · 21/08/2023 02:03

@melj1213 that's a lot of word salad. I really can't make any sense out of your nonsense post.

Really? Then maybe you should accept that this discussion is not for you.

Zuve · 21/08/2023 07:30

She should be videod in her cell and that broadcast.

User15387500 · 21/08/2023 07:30

BeverleyMacker · 20/08/2023 23:17

Absolutely. The needs to be dragged by her hair. How dare she call the shots!! 😡😡😡

And what would you suggest if it was a large dangerous man with no hair

Thatbloodyhedge · 21/08/2023 07:33

On a trolley, straight jacket and gag Hannibal Lector style

User15387500 · 21/08/2023 07:34

I'm sure if it was the law that she attended then she would but since it isn't then she can refuse

Oftenaddled · 21/08/2023 07:34

This isn't a question of whether we have compassion for Lucy Letby or not. What kind of people are we creating if we sanction dragging people in restraints around by the hair for a public spectacle? Who else will it be acceptable to treat this way? You don't make society safer by making it more brutal.

bellac11 · 21/08/2023 07:35

melj1213 · 21/08/2023 01:59

I was pointing out the irony of a post saying that she wants to use her non-presence as some form of control over the families when that logic could also be used for the converse argument - the fact that the need for her presence is important to the families shows that they are giving her the control - by insisting on her presence they are insisting that her involvement is important when it isn't. What is important is that their voices are heard by the courts in their statements, whether or not LL is there should be irrelevant as she is not important and by making her presence necessary you are giving her the control. If they were to just carry on the same, whether she is there or not, it shifts the power balance in their favour - they aren't bothered whether she is listening or not, because even if she doesn't hear them the world will.

I'm also defending a person's legal right (as it currently stands) not to attend a sentencing hearing if they choose not to, along with their legal right not to be physically manhandled into the courtroom under those circumstances.

I hold the view that I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it and in this case I uphold the view that I may morally disagree with the law but I will defend anyone's right to have the laws fairly and equally applied without prejudice (as is the point of them) regardless of who they are. If that means that defendants do not have to physically attend a sentencing hearing then so be it; we should not change laws based on the wishes of the victims families unless it is also supported by impartial reasoning.

Practically and logistically there are so many reasons why it would be a bad idea to unilaterally change the law that I cannot support any wish to change the law as it stands currently as there are just too many risk factors that outweigh the "benefits" - just because we can make it happen doesn't mean we have to, especially if it is going to put people's safety at risk.

Show quote history

Yes I agree with that

The problem is that when people cite that the families want her to be there, of course they do, they think that there will be some impact on her.

She is a killer, she is probably a psychopath, it will make not one jot of difference if she is there or not in terms of her remorse. If she had remorse she would have pled guilty or offered some sort of explanation

Families in this situation will never have 'closure' or feel satisfied with any outcome because the only outcome should/could be that they have their children back and of course that cant happen.

So they believe that a killer sitting listening to the impact their acts had on the family will go some way to serving justice. It wont and they need support with that

Justice has already been served, she was convicted and today she will be sentenced, unlikely to be released. That is justice.

MadamWhiteleigh · 21/08/2023 07:39

She’ll get a whole life order I expect. I don’t think she should be made to attend. Firstly, how? And secondly, I think it’s rather powerful that you are sentenced regardless - you can’t escape justice by refusing to leave your cell.

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