To think Lucy Letby should be made to attend court for the sentencing

[Viviennemary]

I know there are other threads on this terrible case. But I just read she has refused to attend court for the sentencing which is to be on Monday morning. The judge said he does not have the power to force her to attend. Can't see she will ever be allowed out of prison. And rightly so.

What do we do when there aren't enough prison guards any more?

Seems there’ll be no shortage of lynch mobs. Because somehow that makes them better than anyone convicted of sating their blood lust.

I'm not arguing with you like you think it's a good idea, I can see that you don't think it is. I'm asking you how this would work. You said that if the law said something had to happen, it would. as that certainly isn't a universal truth, I'm asking you how.

What you seem to be suggesting here is that more money would be found if the law were changed. That is at least an explanation, but it's not very convincing. After all, there are plenty of legal entitlements that can't be met if staff can't be recruited- look at schools and care packages for example. So do you think the government budgets would be increased, or that prisons and the court service would find the money somehow?

Incidentally, prison transfers being delayed due to logistical considerations is hardly unheard of. Doesn't matter so much if you're just moving someone from a Cat A to a Cat B, that's not so time sensitive. Court hearings are. Yet prisons fail to produce prisoners at them due to logistical issues all the time.

Who is going to risk their lives doing that? Do you imagine they have a row of wheelchairs of all sizes in all criminal courts ready for this purpose? How do they deal with stairs with a chair occupant throwing themselves around?

Really, people who come up with these solutions should have to volunteer for a stint putting them into effect. Strictly on condition, of course, that they can't expect to use NHS services to deal with the inevitable consequences, nor can they expect any entitlement to compensation.

Well eventually there would be a risk to the public if suddenly all serial killers and rapists and violent thugs just refused to go to prison and no one could force them. In the very very unlikely case this happened and serial killers were walking free due to no prison guards I'm pretty sure the government would bring in the use of more effective weapons for guards to use to protect themselves. The country will not just close down all prisons due to a lack to guards. (You'd also probably have no police by that point as what would be the point arresting anyone if you knew there was no prisons).

This scenario is very very unlikely to happen obviously. The most likely scenario is, nothing about the current system will change.

Excellent idea!

And of course, if she actually was dragged there 'kicking and screaming,' it would be all about her. It needs to be about the victims.

There aren't enough prison guards at the moment as it is!

It’s not about what they feel

sure anybody capable of such crimes is unlikely to feel shame

but that doesn’t mean we can’t throw shame at them in bucketloads

@BeverleyMacker, do refer us to precisely where we can find the "many" posts that are "sympathetic to her wishes".

We'll wait.

What's the point? She's going to do life. Every single day of it. She had to sit through the trial so she's heard the evidence against her. From what's been said she'd enjoy hearing the parents' distress. I don't see what the prisoner being there adds to it tbh. For anyone.

Completely pointless.

Should we do it if it even risks injuring innocent people? If it risks overshadowing the victims' impact statements?

How would she suffer? This is someone who stood happily by watching the torment she had caused whilst, in many cases, plotting to cause them more by killing their remaining babies. She would probably enjoy hearing more about what they have suffered, and wouldn't feel any shame. She may even decide there's more fun to be had by mocking them.

No it isnt

it serves as an example to others in society

for many relatives it’s something they have waited for

Many experts have been talking of ways to achieve it it conjunction with the victims eg via audio into the cell

If a serial killer or a rapist needs arresting then the risk to the officers is balanced by the risk to the public

People are (luckily for us) willing to put themselves at risk if they percieve the risk to the public as being worth it

Asking someone to put their life at risk when there is zero risk to the public means there will be less people willing to do this

Throughout the thread and on TV many experts have been discussing ways to make the convict hear the sentencing via technology

im sure it’s easy for society to put directions in place after speaking to the victims

Who? You keep talking about people who sympathise with Letby, you seem to be wholly incapable of pointing out the relevant posts.

Probably because they don't exist

So let's say that the law is changed to "drag prisoners kicking and screaming" into court for sentencing. Then what? Do people honestly think that prisoner will sit meekly in the dock as victim statements are read and whilst they are being sentenced? My guess would be no they won't. They will disrupt proceedings until eventually they are ordered to be removed from the court, rendering the whole "drag 'em there" process worthless. Yes maybe add a few years on the sentence but in the case of LL she got a whole life anyway so no point adding anymore on that.

Honestly some people need to think ideas through before jumping on the nearest passing bandwagon.

blubberyboo

What does this look like in practice?
but that doesn’t mean we can’t throw shame at them in bucketloads

This point has already been answered more than once.

Do keep up.

Why does them hearing it matter? With LL, the judge has stated that she will recieve written copies of the impact statements and the sentencing comments, so its not as if she doesn't get to see what was said if she wants to (and presumably she can choose not to read them, just as she can choose not to listen to anything being piped in to her cell...). Why is it so desperately important that she hears the words as well?

I wonder how many of the drag them kicking and screaming brigade would volunteer to drag someone like Robert Maudsley into a dock if they didn’t want to go.

Ask the relatives of many victims of this case and others some of whom who have spoken about the importance to them!

you forget this is not just about Letby and these relatives, but about all future cases.

she could rip a page up but by forcing her to listen to the audio means she either has to listen or hurt her own throat drowning it out in her own cell

None of those precautions in court remove the risk to court officers. The government just isn't going to go to the expense of retrofitting soundproof docks in courts, it doesn't even keep them in a state of acceptable repair.

Someone with a whole life term isn't going to end up in a category D prison. If you take away privileges, you take away incentives to behave and refrain from violence thus making life for the staff even more difficult and dangerous.

I see the usual media arse rags have started targeting Letbys parents. Painting their non-attendance at the sentencing as a show of ‘solidarity’.

Got to feed the witch hunters.