To think Lucy Letby should be made to attend court for the sentencing

[Viviennemary]

I know there are other threads on this terrible case. But I just read she has refused to attend court for the sentencing which is to be on Monday morning. The judge said he does not have the power to force her to attend. Can't see she will ever be allowed out of prison. And rightly so.

Ugh it’s SO BORING when people twist words to for their narrative.

Can you explain that when I wrote:
gleeful at the thought of her being harmEd

You thought this meant:
gleeful’ about these horrendous crimes and serial killer

Or did you just really wanna twist my words to make a point (though I’m it sure what your point even is)?

So don't you care about the lives and health of the staff?

Will you still feel that way if staff refuse to do dangerous work like this? What do you suggest we do then? And please don't come up with silly stuff about asking for untrained volunteers or victims' relatives.

Legally, she didn’t. Legally none of us lose human rights. What is moral and what is legal is often at odds but if you think that going to prison means people forego their human rights, you’re very wrong

I've been trying to say this throughout the thread and been ignored.

And we will continue to be.

Physical restraint is by it's very nature is an act of aggression/violence. There have to be very specific circumstances where it is seen as acceptable because it is aimed to contribute to the safety of the individual, staff, or an institution or wider society.

It carries risks to the person being restrained and the staff involved.

It should be an absolute last resort to preserve safety and security of the individual, staff and the institution.

It should never be used where there is no direct risk to the individual staff or the institution.

So no, lives and injuries should not be risked to force LL into court.

Weetabix, I agree with every post of yours. You have endless patience but alas, you're explaining in vain to some really odd posters who can't fathom logic and have no interest in the law. That's putting it very kindly too.

Also NOELScosmichelicopter

@NOELScosmichelicopter dont let talking sense get in the way of people’s need for their fantasywanks. Don’t let the welfare of court staff get in the way of their need to see the facial expressions of a woman who likely will make no facial expression because she clearly has no fucks to give about what she did

Some posters here are as thick as two short planks.

People have explained, very patiently, again and again, why forcing a prisoner to sentencing will not work and can end up doing more harm than good to so many people. They could not have been more clear.

You can't argue with stupid.

Who will decide when members of society lose their human rights and for what reason. I dread to think what our society will end up like, a return to the Middle Ages perhaps

@BeverleyMacker human rights are inherent and inalienable.
You can't lose them, even if they are denied or taken away.
That's the whole point.

When should LL have lost her rights? When she was arrested? When she was charged? When she was found guilty?

How would you suggest that the justice system manages this in future?

Thank you @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

I become increasingly disturbed by people who not only want blood, but if YOU don’t want actual blood you’re a sympathiser or enabler. It’s at every level too - from those who watch pedophile Hunter videos to people who massively overreacted to the Philip Schofield scandal, to people who want to see Lucy Letby dragged kicking and screaming into a dock by people putting their own welfare at risk. The dum-dum need to appease their odd little fantasies of revenge overtakes any sort of critical and reasonable thinking of “well, actually, the reason we can’t do that is XY&Z”. And they think they’re oh so righteous and gallant and better than those who do pause to think of the wider ramifications. It’s utterly, utterly baffling and terrifying in equal measure.

I agree with you. I don't think it's worth it and it's not in anyone's best interest and the risks are too high. My point is mainly to people who say "But you can't just force her" as though she really has a choice. IF the law was to change and she had to go then yes they would force her. But at the moment she has the illusion of choice because as you say its basically not worth the hassle to force her. But they COULD if they wanted to. The same way she would be forcibly arrested or forced to go to prison.

I know, the level of wanton stupidity and the desperation to display it on threads like these is really terrifying.

It's posters like these who were baying for Sarah Everard's killer to be given only a 'shit barrister'. Never mind that it was essential that the very best one was needed to close every potential loophole and prevent any appeal from ever prevailing.

Gratuitous stupidity is something that should be discriminated against and tackled, we don't need this in society.

YY @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe i honestly think some posters want a “I am the most disgusted about what Lucy Letby did” trophy or something

Are you aware that sometimes it isn't actually possible to get the staff to present a prisoner to court? What do you think would happen to prison staffing levels in the scenario you outline, and do you reckon the companies who currently have the transport contracts will all be fine to accept and staff the highest risk transfers?

Is it vile to query why anyone should be entitled to demand that staff put their lives at risk for any purpose other than saving lives?

Some of you have watched too much Jeremy Kyle. There isn’t an abundance of massive men able to quell the anger of scrappy men and women. Prisoner service staff are badly paid, have a high risk job and don’t need bigger risks just because YOU, random person, might feel better that someone was sat in a dock rather than another room.

Perhaps a 'go fund me' for some tacky, gold plastic thing from China, Weetabix, that should go well.

It actually probably would, thinking about it. I can see them strapped to car bonnets now. Yikes.

It would be interesting to start a thread for people who are interested in discussing the roles of prison officers. Just an idea….. I think some people would be fascinated to discuss it. Maybe in AMA.

Back to LL - does anyone know if she has the right to appeal? The superintendent in the case said he’d very surprised if she doesn’t?

What happens if you can't get the staff to transfer the prisoner to prison?

You're arguing with me as though I think it's a good idea to force her to court. I do not. I don't think it's worth it. But my point is forcing her is something that could happen SHOULD THE LAW DEMAND IT. Currently it doesn't. So it's irrelevant. But in the same way they find staff to transport prisoners to prison if they refuse to go, they would also find staff to transport them to court should they refuse. But because it isn't worth the hassle, and like you say they'd either need to pay people more and employ more of them, they won't make that change. But I guarantee you if they needed to force a person to do anything, they would find a way. But because its not necessary they don't need to.

This has been fuelled by various politicians today saying that they would/will change the law to compel those convicted to attend sentencing. It’s just the capitalising on a headline lying they always do. They lie with 2005 resources in their head in a 2023 world where the country has less resources every day.

Oh, stop being so silly. People aren't saying this out of sympathy with Letby, they're pointing out the danger to guards and the fact that realistically it still doesn't mean she'd listen to anything or be prevented from causing massive disruption to the process.

Try reading and answering the points that have actually been made, not ones that you have made up.

What if they couldn't?

What if by forcing this change they end up with not enough people to force people into prison because they aren't willing to risk their lives for something that has zero risk to the public

What do we do when there aren't enough prison guards any more?

Yep.

Their fantasies about making people suffer which don't seem to give a shit about the innocent people who would be required to facilitate their vengeful fantasies.

Thinking they're great people advocating bestowing unlawful justice so long as they and their loved ones don't have to deal with what it means and they think they get to occupy a moral high ground as will never have to contemplate their children being accused of a crime or wanting to be a Police or prison officer.

I also think people don't realise we won't see her face anyway, unless we are in court. The TV cameras stay firmly fixed on the judge during sentencing.