To think Lucy Letby should be made to attend court for the sentencing

[Viviennemary]

I know there are other threads on this terrible case. But I just read she has refused to attend court for the sentencing which is to be on Monday morning. The judge said he does not have the power to force her to attend. Can't see she will ever be allowed out of prison. And rightly so.

Many people who commit crimes like these take pleasure in hearing victim statements, it doesn't make them feel remorse it makes them have another dose of the euphoria they felt when they did these hideous things. It was even remarked on in the trial that the only time she showed any emotion were when things about herself were mentioned, never about her victims or their families. People think forcing someone to listen is going to give them some closure or that it'll be distressing for the convicted; it won't. Its a last show of power but refusing to go, nothing more. The sentencing itself is immaterial really as they find out soon enough and have to live with whatever sentence it is.

It’s ironic really, because as reported during the court case she enjoyed the pain she caused. She was giddy with excitement, she liked the attention. She looked up the families on social media, even on Christmas Day, to see the impact she’d had on their lives. And yet here she is, shunning the chance to hear their heartache and pain all over again. It must be a control thing for her. Or quite possibly she fears being able to control herself and her ability to hide her pleasure when faced with their pain in front of her.

As far as i am concerned, its most victims families that want the guilty there.. & if they do, then their wishes are paramount, not what you or i think

Actually, justice isn't determined by the victims and their families in England. Do you want to introduce Sharia as well and have the victims' families choose the punishment? Because that's the logical conclusion of what you're advocating.

I'm sure it does. But what about the people for whom it won't help, and who don't want her there gloating over their pain?

And does it help if that person is physically present but blatantly ignoring the whole thing or shouting out accusations and obscenities about the victim?

A previous poster who works in a secure facility has already said that prisoners routinely are ‘forced’ to go places they’d rather not. Did you miss that or simply ignore it because it doesn’t suit your narrative of ‘big scary men’ doing only as they please?

There are so, so many. I saw one of a man who had physically, emotionally and sexually abused his partner and murdered their children telling her in court that the children would be alive had she not involved the Police in their relationship and she was responsible for their deaths. And yes the Judge directed him to stop talking but really, he had nothing to lose after his sentencing so could say what he wanted and carry on shouting even as he's physically dragged out of court.

It was his last opportunity to abuse her and he took it.

That's the reality that could happen.

Get an education, ladies. And if you've had one, use it and apply critical thinking rather than regurgitating the Daily Mail and emotion-based tripe!

Yeah but you know, you're just collateral. Prisoners get restrained all time so it'll be fine, people who don't know anything about the subject think it must be cos it'll fit with their moral assessment of the situation. Problem sorted!

It isn't the law.

And have you missed my previous post about how there's a huge difference between staff having to do something to protect the safety of the inmate, the staff and the institution as a last resort as restraint should always be?

And putting the lives and health of an inmate and the staff at risk to satisfy the demands of a few victims or some members of the public who want an inmate to be forced into court so they can see their reaction?

Hmm? Are they the same do you think?

Does anyone know if they will/have carried out psychological tests on serial killers? I am guessing they do so they can claim insanity to get different conditions?
I know prior to parole they seem to carry out assessments re remorse?
Also will LL’s parents be given protection/help to continue their lives? I can’t imagine what they are thinking.

I totally agree with you. But what if the families read out their statement to her and she just laughed in their faces? She's obviously totally unconcerned about hurting the families' feelings. She might get a further kick out of hearing about their suffering. I'd like to see her dragged into court to face her victims' families but if she shows no contrition or even seems to get power from it then it's not going to help them.

Why wouldn't she be willing to attend court for the trial? It's one of the most important rights an accused person has. In her case, it was her only chance of getting out of this situation.

She'll have been assessed by psychiatrists if she engaged with that. I'm not aware of any evidence produced by her defence to say she was suffering from a mental disorder.

Remorse is irrelevant in this case as she hasn't admitted anything.

This.

as much as it’s horrifying that she won’t attend, I don’t want to live in a country where people are manhandled and physically forced into going into the dock.

She did miss some days in court (through her own choice). She'll be in the holding cells currently so they can't be blamed for her not attending.

Her defence have said they're not putting forward any mitigations.

She did miss some days in court (through her own choice). She'll be in the holding cells currently so they can't be blamed for her not attending.

Her defence have said they're not putting forward any mitigations.

It’s not a film.

She has sat impassive through 10 months of evidence and horrendous details of baby deaths. She isn’t going to suddenly show remorse at what she has done, or writhe in emotional pain as she hears impact statements. She already stood right next to this parents as they screamed in distress at their child’s death.

No one can now inflict anything like as much pain on LL as those parents are enduring, certainly not by adding another day to the 10 months she already spent in court.

And putting the lives and health of an inmate and the staff at risk to satisfy the demands of a few victims

Very few care about the lives and health of a serial killer.

‘Satisfy the demands of a few victims*

I’m actually reeling from your post.

Those are situations where the guards are doing a job that has to be done, and it's relatively quite a quick job. Essentially, you are simply throwing them into a cell or van and locking the door. If they start throwing themselves around and shouting and screaming, it doesn't matter, they can't harm anyone.

What people are demanding here is a prolonged process whereby the prisoner is forced to court, forced into the dock and held there for a long time - in a case like this, potentially a matter of hours. In many (possibly most) courts, the prisoner has to be brought up stairs to get to the dock as cells tend to be on a lower level. Usually guards stand in the dock with them. It just isn't comparable to chucking an unwilling prisoner into a cell, locking the door and leaving them to it.

It's not theoretical, a guard has been killed in this process. Who is going to apply for a job carrying that risk when it isn't necessary?

Interesting that you've ignored the part about the health of the staff...

It’s not a film.

Quite, some need to remember this.

So the 43 stone man "listens" in his cell, the 8 stone woman gets physically forced into court? How do we justify that?

There could easily be and should be a specialist team just to do this.

Interesting that you have no issue with the poster’s use of ‘satisfy the demands of a few victims’.

That is vile.

I'm also wondering, are these weight limits going to have to vary according to the size and strength of the staff involved? Like, we'll force your five six, eleven stone self down if it's a Monday because the staff on rota are bigger then, but not on Tuesdays because massive Brian's off then and also not when he's got annual leave.