What the actual fuck - as username suggests

[Whatheactualfuck]

NC and some minor details changed, because... well, fuck off, DM and Sun. Posting for traffic: I have no idea what to do next.

So I got contacted by my ExH that my DS's biological father has died this week, as told to him (ExH) by my biological brother.

I am NC with my entire biological family - my mother is a classic narcissist and my brother was the golden child; a few years ago (6 blissful ones of peace) I decided that enough was enough and I cut them out of my life after they had made my life and any accomplishment in it hell for over 30 years. My brother has developed into typical flying money doing her every bidding and believing her every word, and since I got divorced, the bitch has managed to reel my ExH back in, too, at least into contact (we live abroad; I partially moved countries to get away from her, it was that bad - ExH saw the impact at the time and agreed, but his hatred of me when I left the abusive marriage clearly changed all that). The kids are being forced to email regularly by him, even though they have zero interest in maintaining contact.

He has now taken my kids on holiday to my home country; he visits this often, but I have the strange feeling that this time he will actually take them to my mother's. My kids are 6 and 16, so old enough to know some bits, but not the whole story, but they don't know her. My ExH used to hate my mother due to her many manipulation attempts on my eldest before I cut contact.

When I was pregnant with my eldest, I first got convonced to keep him by his biological father, then later on left for another woman when it was way too late into the pregnancy. I was made homeless by him and his friends (we lived in a flat share) while pregnant and he behaved repulsively. He didn't take any responsibility for his child, was never on the birth cert and never paid maintenance, bearing in mind I raised my eldest to 16 without his help and had my ex husband adopt him after a while.

Turns out my mother was in contact with my biological ex after I went NC with her (while I was in contact she encouraged me to block him out of my life). He'd post some shit about missing him on SM and she'd respond compassionately.

I'm not even sure him dying is true; I can't seem to find very recent records online and his family have previously lied about another family member of mine being on their death bed.

This man was abusive, alcoholic, drug-abusing and died of liver failure, if indeed he did. My ex is abusive, my mother a narcissist. I am surrouded by flying monkeys from my family and every time I think I have a hit of piece some other shite comes to light or I get some message like that.

Don't get me wrong, if he is indeed dead that's only good news; I have always tried to keep my son away from their circle of norms and even though I have been open about my son's origins, he never wanted anything to do with his biological father.

But I am so shaken.

If it's true, it's just another excuse for my mother to play the family card and get my ExH to be back in full contact with my kids (and ultimately to get back at me).

If it's not, my brother has clearly either fabricated or believed a lie that will encourage people to mess up what is now a lovely, stable life for him.

I am worries, stressed out of my mind and have no idea how to protect my children and indeed me from these people.

Please, anyone, help?

I'm a bit confused here. Not by what's happened but why you need to 'do' anything. As far as your children are concerned what's actually changed?
Just for clarity have I understood? You fell pregnant to 'bio dad' and he abandoned you mid pregnancy. You then met your ex husband who adopted your first and you had a 2nd child with. He's maintained contact with both boys. In the interim you've gone non contact with your mum and brother but your ex has rekindled contact. Its through them that your ex learnt that biodad had died. You're assuming this is true but have no idea as you've not had contact since he abandoned you. Your boys are currently with their dad and you suspect he might take them to see your mum. Presumably they'll hear about dead biodad.
Why would this affect anything at all?

To find details of a recent death you can try googling newspapers for the area he lived in. Also Google his name, city, death. Sometimes shows up.
Are you kids safe and will be returned to you?

It would affect something if my mother tried to use this as a lever; she has tried to do similar before. You know, in the vein of "one family member has dies, you should really see me before it happens to me, too". She has form for this and the fact my brother was the one to break the news has me more worried than anything. My brother is a typical flying money and will do anything my mother tells him to.

The death just brings back everything I felt as a young adult; that whole side of the biological family, the alcohol abuse, the drugs, the drama that came with that particular man. But I can deal with that.

But when my mother, who gravitates to drama, gets involved, it becomes a wholw other ball game. She will use it any way she can. My son already mentioned they "may" get taken to a place closer to where she lives for a day. The permission was worded in a way that allowed them to travel anywhere abroad, nothing I could say at the time without getting on the wrong side of ExH (who could make my life very difficult if he wanted to).

@Andthereyougo I tried looking for anything, but his family would not have the means to make newspaper announcements or similar and nothing has come up on his social media yet. I have tried to look. but most sites want credit card information up front.

OP, I can feel the panic rolling off you in every post...

I haven't lived your life, so I cannot comment either way, but most people don't cut off their family unless they have very good reasons. Having created a boundary, you are under no pressure to let them back in.

Yes, if your eldest's dad was abusive, it's incredibly shitty for your mother to have kept up a relationship with him. Did she know the full extent of the abuse? Often these things are covered up so no one really knows how horrific it is outside the couple, so it's possible she thought you were exaggerating. Either way... it's odd for a mother to side with her son-in-law and not her daughter.

But you can't control that. You had no influence over whether she spoke to him before, you can't control what she does or doesn't do now. All you can do is ignore it. Keep up this wall where you don't see her behaviour and it doesn't affect you.

I think it's important you know your son's biological dad is dead, because he might have feelings about it, and as his mum, you have to support him. Your ex wasn't wrong to tell you.

Take a breath. You're used to no contact with your family, so this must have felt like one hell of a shock, but it doesn't actually change anything. Maybe it means your mother is even shittier than you thought, but you'd already stopped contact with her. You can continue to have no contact with her. There is no change.

If your ex parented your eldest, well, your eldest may not be that affected by the death. He still has a father figure in his life.

Will your kids have a relationship with your family through your ex? You can't stop them. That was never in your control. Sooner or later, children grow up and they're old enough to do whatever they want. Maybe, if your ex takes them to meet your family now, that contact will happen sooner than it could have. But they could have got curious as young adults and made contact anyway. You can choose who you cut out of your life, but you can't make that choice for anyone else, at least, not permanently.

Focus on the things that are with your control. You don't have to talk to your family. You are still the mum of your children, and you are still responsible for co-parenting them and doing the best you can.

I hope your mind stops racing soon, and you remember that this doesn't change your choices. Your mother has no power over you other than the power you give her. Don't give her any.

Since it's AIBU not the narcissist support thread, yes, I do think YABU to refer to all these people as "golden child", "flying monkey" etc. They are just flawed people trying to live their lives like all the rest of us.

I really would question whether immersing yourself in "support" groups that use this kind of language is helpful for you. 16 years on and you still feel this stressed and angry and anxious in response to a few internet commentators not providing a total hugbox? I really do encourage you to focus on what you can control (your own actions) and not what you can't (other people's relationships).

But I'm just some jerk on the internet, so, shrug.

Op you need to disconnect from your mother which you have not yet done. You are catastrophising. There’s a great saying - don’t trouble trouble, until trouble troubles you.

Yoir oldest son is of an age for an honest conversation about your family. Your youngest - your mother has no legal right to insist he stays with her. Try to step back and see what this is - whether or not anyone is doing it deliberately, you are still letting yourself be manipulated and stressed by them.

Focus on what you can change - that’s your relationship and suppprt to your sons. ThTs where your energy needs to be. Not worrying about this pile of shit.

Remember you’ve been trained to react - that’s what you’re still doing. Only you can find a way to stop it,

Will your kids have a relationship with your family through your ex? You can't stop them. That was never in your control. Sooner or later, children grow up and they're old enough to do whatever they want. Maybe, if your ex takes them to meet your family now, that contact will happen sooner than it could have. But they could have got curious as young adults and made contact anyway. You can choose who you cut out of your life, but you can't make that choice for anyone else, at least, not permanently.

I think that this is key here. You were never going to be able to control who your children choose to know as adults. I would imagine for your 16yo especially there would be curiosity there if you and his brother are the only biological relative he is allowed to know. You just have to trust in your parenting to date and let him go. At 16 he is old enough to make these decisions for himself.

You have to accept that your children, your exes, your brother are not all brain-dead idiots, they have the ability to choose who they see and talk to. They will have different relationships with your mother than you do. I had a very emotionally abusive mother, she was a lovely mother to my siblings, they see her all the time, they like and love her. She is nice to her grandkids, they see her and like her. That is their choice. It really patronising to suggest that your mother has brainwashed everyone and you are the only one who can see the truth. Your truth is yours and yours alone, just as your relationship with your mother is yours and not your childrens/brothers/exes.

So you have cut the following people out of your life-
Your DS1’s father
Your DS2’s father
Your parents and brother

I’m always amazed at posts like this as I’ve never, ever heard of someone doing this in real life, only on MN.

And now you’re upset that people you choose to not communicate with, have the audacity to speak to each other, in a country you don’t even live in?

OP, you have to look for the common denominator here.

I think accepting that people can be very different to other people is a hard, hard lesson as an adult to accept.

It's easy to assume that someone who treats you badly is horrible 100% of the time, but most people are more nuanced than that. Someone can be horrible to you, and lovely to other people.

It still upsets a little me that some of our mutual friends sided with my abusive ex when we broke up. But they didn't see that side of him. He wasn't horrible all the time - why would I have dated him in the first place if that was true? They saw the better parts of him - they didn't live my life and they didn't see my truth.

Having learnt the lesson the hard way, I would never expect other people's relationships to mirror mine. We all are complex creatures who choose to show different parts of ourselves to others.

Different truths aren't necessarily incompatible. Life is just messy like that.

Actually, it reads to me as if the OP has had the misfortune to have multiple abusive relationships. Once you live through one of those, it erodes your boundaries and it's very easy to end up in another.

This kind of dialogue is why so many people feel trapped in a subsequent bad relationship - they think, oh, it must be me. Generally, it's not them, they just have no ability to filter out the bad ones anymore. It's why it's so important to do things like the freedom programme, have counselling, and get used to coping on your own before jumping into another relationship.

I agree that the OP's mind is racing to all kinds of hypotheticals and it's not helping her, but have some compassion. Shaming an abuse survivor isn't really a good look.

You said in your OP that your two children have "zero interest" in maintaining contact with your exH, but he's "forced" them to send him emails etc?
I'm sure other parents of teenagers must be wondering how he's managed this!
Even if he adopted your DS1 when he was young, and wangled 50% of parenting when you split up, your son is now 16 years old. So he's old enough to decide how much time he wishes to spend with this man. And nobody (no court) is going to force him to spend half his time with him. Can you have a full and frank discussion with him about what he'd like to do from now onwards?
And it's unclear why your exH has DS2 50% of the time: was this court-mandated, or something he demanded and you agreed to years ago? Any such arrangement can be altered, and again, your 6yo's wishes will be listened to. Why do you believe you can't stop this man taking your children abroad?

No, they have 50% contact with my ExH (and I haven't cut him out of my life, we're civil). They have zero interest in my mother, to them, she is a stranger.

But they're still being made to be in contact, because my ExH and his family put pressure on them to do so; they don't understand that I have gone NC for a reason, though my ExH should, but conveniently forgot when I left him.

It's her, not me. She has alienated my father from us as children; I am now in contact with him and his new wife regularly and have heard many stories of how she has manipulated poeple around him, too.

Yes, having got into many abusive relationships after leaving home is why I now no longer bother with men.

Why do you believe you can't stop this man taking your children abroad?

Maybe because that's almost certainly the case? They are also his children and he plays an active part in their lives. It's highly unlikely that any court is going to prevent him taking them to visit his home country.

The common denominator is being abused herself as a child. That makes her more vulnerable to being abused again because sometimes, it never feels quite as bad as the original abuser.

After all, an ex would have at least pretended occasionally to quite like somebody to get sex/marriage/etc, whereas a parent doesn't have to because the kid is stuck with them until they can find an escape route - such as a slightly more subtle abuser.

I don't understand why people are so desperate to cut relatives out of their children's lives, unless those people represent a real risk to those children. Kids are not just pawns to be used to control and punish others. It sounds to me like your family genuinely miss your children and want contact. Why not allow your children to be surrounded by people who love them. You don't need to have contact yourself. Would 8t really be the worst thing in the world for your kids to meet their relatives. Providing that you have done a half decent job parenting, they won't be turned against you by your mother or ExH. In fact, later down the line, they might chose to see them themselves and feel as though you kept them from them. So much drama and animosity. It doesn't sound good for anybody, including yourself.

It's her, not me. She has alienated my father from us as children; I am now in contact with him and his new wife regularly and have heard many stories of how she has manipulated poeple around him, too.

My point is, is that your kids could grow up feeling that you alienated them from their wider family and end up siding with them (having learned early on that people cut other people out, they may then adopt this approach towards you). However, if you set an example of being reasonable and civil, they are also more likely to treat you with respect too when they are older and not cut you out.

She almost completely destroyed the part of my brain that could soothe me while my amygdala is in overdrive. So yeah, all emotions are greatly heightened

I’m not sure this is a medical diagnosis here…

If a man were to groom a woman and then treat her the way my mother grooms and then mistreats other people, others here would be very quick to tell the woman to cut the bastard out of her life.

I have done the same with my mother, but it makes me unreasobable to protect my children from her?

Do people here really not know what narcissistic abuse actually is?

It's what I got told by the doctors who treated me

But I see that MN was clearly the wrong choice to air my worries.

I had hoped for support from people who knew what it is like. I honestly give up.

It's all a bit dramatic. If you are NC with your mother then it really doesn't matter who she is/was in contact with. Just step back from it all and live your own life without worrying about anyone else. I could not live like this.

But does she mistreat everyone else? I'm not doubting she mistreated you but I don't believe that everyone else is under her spell and unable to make informed decisions about whether or not they want a relationship with her.

Your father for instance he chose at some point to walk away. You are in your 30s now, why are you only back in contact with him now? Why wasn't he there when you turned 18? Why didn't he protect you from her prior to that? It's very convenient he has someone there to take all blame away from him isn't it? It's very easy to make one person out to be the wicked witch, I know I was guilty of this with my own mother in my teens and early 20s but you have to accept that other people choose for themselves too based on their experiences. This is true for your children too, they will choose for themselves if your mother is someone who adds to their lives and you don't get to 'protect' them from it as awful as that may feel to you.

I think I’d just concentrate on getting the children back then go on ignoring all the adults, talk to the kids so they’re ok with everything. My mother was an attention seeker, everything was about her so get what you e had to put up with.
Sometimes newspapers do a report on a death. Bill Smith, ex footballer for X Town died on Friday. John Jones, local councillor, Fred Bloggs who was head boy at local school . Etc. etc

Who is deranged in this? You all sound mad as a box of frogs.

No news outlet would be interested in this because none of it makes any sense.

You haven't dealt with your issues with your DM. If you had then you wouldn't be catastrophising so wildly about all this. Your ex may or may not be dead. It doesn't matter - except in the way you break this news to your DS and how he reacts to it. Your DM may or may not have been in contact with your ex. It also doesn't matter. It didn't affect your life when she was in contact with him so it definitely doesn't affect it now.
Your reactions are very extreme. You'd benefit from counselling so you can get some perspective on all this.
MN is not the place to go if you want people to validate ott emotional responses especially where DCs are involved. MN is the place to go if you want reasoned advice from parents who have dealt with their own trauma/ lived through abusive relationships, etc.