Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder about newborns of gay dads

77 replies

Leahisleaving · 17/08/2023 16:44

I recently became a mum for the first time (9! Weeks ago,) and have been struggling with anxiety in terms of leaving baby to go out for the evening with DH. There's all this information out there about bonding etc and I'm just worried DD might miss me. In an effort to give me some reassurance DH said to think about gay dads, their newborns never even get that moment with their mums. Does anyone know how that works? Do newborns really need that bondinf time with their mums?

OP posts:
ellyoctober · 17/08/2023 16:46

Yup the mother is all they've known.

What a shame for both infant and mother 😢

Aquamarine1029 · 17/08/2023 16:47

Do newborns really need that bondinf time with their mums?

Yes, they really, really do. It's critical for healthy development.

sunnydayhereandnow · 17/08/2023 16:55

Not sure what bonding at birth has to do with leaving a baby for an evening at 9 weeks? If you are not confident to leave baby for a whole evening, how about a shorter outing with your dh for coffee and build up to it? It’s totally fine to leave a baby for a short time with a trusted family member or childminder and it’s a good way for them to learn that mum sometimes goes out - but she comes back!

cariadlet · 17/08/2023 16:58

It's not just a problem with gay dads; it's part of a wider problem with surrogacy which sees the surrogate mother as a producer and the baby as a product.

All the baby has known for 9 months, its mother's warm, dark secure womb. The baby is used to hearing the mother's heartbeat.

Being placed on its mother for skin to skin contact in the early moments is reassuring for the baby and also has all sorts of beneficial side effects for the mother.

www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2023/4/19/dont-buy-adopt-stop-surrogacy-now

Which isn't to say that for Mums to have a little break from the baby to spend time with the Dad will be damaging to the baby - if the Mum wants to leave the baby and feels ready to do so.
Mums shouldn't be pushed either to go out and leave a baby or to be always with the baby.

Elsiebear90 · 17/08/2023 17:02

I don’t think you need to be worrying about this at 9 weeks old, you popping out for the night isn’t gonna harm your baby. As for bonding with their mums, I didn’t have skin to skin with my mum when I was born because she was very unwell, I was held for a long time by my dad while they worked on my mum and I bonded just fine with my mum (and my dad), my dad said I appeared to recognise his voice and was comforted by him talking to me.

Original poster
Leahisleaving · 17/08/2023 17:04

I honestly feel my DD gets so much comfort out of being on the boob and in general on my chest. I've never really thought about surrogacy being an issue and thought it was fine but I suppose now I think about it, it almost feels cruel to take a baby away from it's mum so quickly.

OP posts:
Original poster
Leahisleaving · 17/08/2023 17:06

Elsiebear90 · 17/08/2023 17:02

I don’t think you need to be worrying about this at 9 weeks old, you popping out for the night isn’t gonna harm your baby. As for bonding with their mums, I didn’t have skin to skin with my mum when I was born because she was very unwell, I was held for a long time by my dad while they worked on my mum and I bonded just fine with my mum (and my dad), my dad said I appeared to recognise his voice and was comforted by him talking to me.

This is so adorable to read. I think maybe where that's some of my anxiety generated from. Right after DD was born they needed to take me into theatre and DD was left with DH. Which I was completely fine about and had told DH not to let DD out of sight (all the Lucy letby news terrified me during my pregnancy).

But given the whole skin to skin right after birth was sort of almost like a mantra in all my midwife appointments, the fact that I couldn't do it, made me feel very guilty.

OP posts:
GingerKombucha · 17/08/2023 17:07

I couldn't see my baby for her first 8 days as she was in NICU and i had covid - I've bonded incredibly well with her and she's a very happy 2 year old now. She was in NICU for 2 months and I didn't spend a full 24 hours with her until I roomed in for the last 2 days of her stay. I think there are many reasons that babies don't spend their first hours and days with their mother and I don't think it is harmful. They have essentially no capacity to form memories at that stage and there is a lot of stuff spouted about 'golden hour' etc with no actual scientific evidence to back it up.

mindutopia · 17/08/2023 17:07

Of course, young babies need quality bonding time with their primary caregiver. But there are lots of situations that don't fit the cookie cutter Instagram ideal. There are babies whose mum has died at birth, who has given them up for adoption (lots of private adoptions from birth, for example, in the US)/had a child taken into care. There are parents who cannot even touch their baby much due to prematurity or illness. Now some of these are clearly less than ideal. But I don't think that just because a baby has two loving, devoted dads who devote time and care to bonding means they are going to be scarred for life. There are plenty of mums who are present, but don't adequately bond with their children, due to physical/mental illness, addiction, trauma, you name it. And plenty of dads out their being primary caregiver because life necessitates it.

And gosh, think about all the parents who have to go back to work when their children are only a few weeks old. In the US, I think many mums now have more time off, but certainly, I can remember a time when I first started work, it was only about 6 weeks and then many women back to work full-time.

AndTheSurveySays · 17/08/2023 17:07

it almost feels cruel to take a baby away from it's mum so quickly

It is cruel. We don't even remove kittens or puppies from their mother at birth.

Weefreetiffany · 17/08/2023 17:07

I’m sure gay men are as capable of being caring parents as any other man, or woman. But the maternal relationship is really important and I didn’t realise that until I’d had a baby myself. And so you will probably struggle to convince people who haven’t given birth and don’t value the mother-baby bond/experience of its value, and you’re likely be accused of homophobia. After all women used to die in childbirth and their kids would be ok being raised by other family members. Children are adopted and raised by heterosexual or gay/lesbian families and bond and are well nurtured. But for the child I believe the best case scenario, backed up by what we know about hormones and health, is being allowed to have an immediate relationship with the mother who birthed you.

BIossomtoes · 17/08/2023 17:08

You shouldn’t feel guilty. None of us born before about 1980 at the very earliest had skin to skin. We seem to have managed to grow up all right.

Mumof1andacat · 17/08/2023 17:16

I had no skin to skin with my ds. He was taken straight to the nicu. I held him about 9 hours later for 10 mins and then had to leave as I was not well enough to stay. I saw him twice the next day and I bottle fed him once. We were finally together on day 4. I don't remember doing skin to skin with him. It wasn't mentioned I should. But 10 yrs later,we are close and happy. He was a settled baby who slept through from 5 weeks. I chose to bottle fed whilst pregnant and that worked out for us.

ChilliNoodleGoodness · 17/08/2023 17:20

You sound very anxious OP.

I don't think you need to worry about one night, on the other hand if you are not comfortable going out - then don't.

My first night out was when my son was 8 weeks old. It was only wine and a movie at a friends house. However, it made me feel detached from him, I wasn't ready. I tried again when he was 6 months old (for a Christmas party) and I couldn't settle at all.

Now at aged 3, I practically throw him at his Auntie lol

I can't comment on the gay dad thing really. I don't know enough about the science of things. However as long as the parents are showing love and security, that's fine with me.

ChilliNoodleGoodness · 17/08/2023 17:22

Also, I had no immediate skin to skin as I had sepsis during C Section and was very ill.

Original poster
Leahisleaving · 17/08/2023 17:23

ChilliNoodleGoodness · 17/08/2023 17:20

You sound very anxious OP.

I don't think you need to worry about one night, on the other hand if you are not comfortable going out - then don't.

My first night out was when my son was 8 weeks old. It was only wine and a movie at a friends house. However, it made me feel detached from him, I wasn't ready. I tried again when he was 6 months old (for a Christmas party) and I couldn't settle at all.

Now at aged 3, I practically throw him at his Auntie lol

I can't comment on the gay dad thing really. I don't know enough about the science of things. However as long as the parents are showing love and security, that's fine with me.

This was really helpful to read, thank you. I am glad there's no real age where I'll have to force myself. Someone from my baby club did an overnight stay for a wedding the weekend just gone- that sounds totally undoable for me right now

OP posts:
VanCleefArpels · 17/08/2023 17:24

What about babies whose mum dies in childbirth and therefore brought up by the father or another family member? A newborn doesn’t need to bond with a mother necessarily, they will bond with whoever is their principle caregiver so please don’t worry about babies of gay dads

And take the night off. The baby is not likely to even know you are not there.

BiggerBoat1 · 17/08/2023 17:28

I had no skin to skin with my DD as she was very premature and had to be taken straight to NICU. We bonded just fine and she grew up happy and healthy.

I'm sure babies with two loving gay dads do just fine too.

You may be over-thinking this.

MysteryBelle · 17/08/2023 17:40

A child needs his or her mother (and of course father) absolutely, and the special bonding relating to the mother who carried the baby for nine months and likely breastfeeds.

tillylula · 17/08/2023 17:45

I used to feel like this with my 1st. Due any day now with 3rd and I will be quite happy to leave him with my mum for an hour or two so I can go out with DH by the time he's about 2/3 months. Because it takes me fucking years to recover 🤣

RJnomore1 · 17/08/2023 17:45

My youngest was taken to intensive care without either of us being able to hold her. She was days old before we could. We have a really close relationship and she’s 18 now. Same with her dad.

it’s like all these things with childbirth and babies/ raising children. There’s incremental benefits in each and children who have none are at a disadvantage but not everything has to be book perfect for a child to have a happy life.

BananaSlug · 17/08/2023 17:45

I was born to a single mum in the 80s she had 3 older children so I was sent to the neighbours for the first few weeks to help her. Hasn’t danaged

HermioneKipper · 17/08/2023 17:46

Leahisleaving · 17/08/2023 17:04

I honestly feel my DD gets so much comfort out of being on the boob and in general on my chest. I've never really thought about surrogacy being an issue and thought it was fine but I suppose now I think about it, it almost feels cruel to take a baby away from it's mum so quickly.

Yes you’re right. It is cruel to take babies from their mothers at birth.

Its why so many of us are dead against it.

And that doesn’t even touch on the exploitation of women’s bodies

KaySararSarar · 17/08/2023 17:57

Pre Fix this by saying I dont really condone surrogacy. However, I watched an amazing documentary on Netflix (sure it’s still on there just google) basically there is something in the back of the brain that fires if you are the primary caregiver of a child. Brain scans showed it was present for all mothers, but in the absence of a mother; perhaps death or male parents, it ignited for the male who took over the primary care role.

A baby will attach to whomever they know to care for them..

slore · 17/08/2023 18:03

KaySararSarar · 17/08/2023 17:57

Pre Fix this by saying I dont really condone surrogacy. However, I watched an amazing documentary on Netflix (sure it’s still on there just google) basically there is something in the back of the brain that fires if you are the primary caregiver of a child. Brain scans showed it was present for all mothers, but in the absence of a mother; perhaps death or male parents, it ignited for the male who took over the primary care role.

A baby will attach to whomever they know to care for them..

In the brains of the baby or the caregiver?