To wonder about newborns of gay dads

[Leahisleaving]

I recently became a mum for the first time (9! Weeks ago,) and have been struggling with anxiety in terms of leaving baby to go out for the evening with DH. There's all this information out there about bonding etc and I'm just worried DD might miss me. In an effort to give me some reassurance DH said to think about gay dads, their newborns never even get that moment with their mums. Does anyone know how that works? Do newborns really need that bondinf time with their mums?

Ah here’s an extract from a news piece on it:

“The amygdala makes us vigilant and worry about the infant,” she says. “Once the mother’s amygdala is open, it stays like this forever – no matter how old the child is. But in fathers’ brains, it usually activates about a quarter of what you see in mothers.”
And when there’s no mother? Well, Feldman did a study looking at 48 gay couples who had a child via a surrogate. She videotaped the dads at home, interacting with their baby, and also measured oxytocin levels. She then scanned the fathers’ brains.
“Our results showed that when fathers are the primary caregiver, they have amygdala activation – just like mothers. We had no idea we would find that. Pregnancy, childbirth and nursing activate the mother’s brain, but it’s also activated by caregiving. This shows that it’s a choice to be a parent.

Yeah, surrogacy is deeply unethical.

Being born more decades ago than I care to mention, I was allowed any contact with Mum or Dad until I'd been washed up, spruced up and wrapped up and turned into something presentable!

I don't believe that every adult over the age of 50-something is suffering from abandonment issues as a result of this standard practice. And as my own darling Mum sadly approaches the end of her long, long life, I can categorically state that nobody could love their Mother more than I have done all my life (and vice versa), so it did us no harm!

You do what you want to do in the timeframes you feel comfortable doing it. It's what feels right for you, not about the rule book!

Sorry - wasn't allowed contact.

Why doesn't MN have an edit button!

The ethics of surrogacy aside, you do know that very many new borns do not get to spend an amazing "bonding" period with their birth mother don't you?

I find the "gay dads" in your thread title offensive btw. Many newborns are fostered by women, many surrogate babies go to women or straight couples. It is not just gay men who are fuelling the questionable practice of surrogacy.

Sorry but this is the second fucking post about this today. What is going on?

My husband held and dressed our newborn before me because I was legs in the air having stitches and then I wanted to shower before I held her because I felt sticky and gross. She was an hour old when I first held her.
She went into the SCBU at 2 days old and needed to be under one of those heat lamp things for jaundice so neither of us could hold her. She was there for a week. Parents couldn’t stay the night so we had to leave her.
When she finally went home she spent her first evening held in her Dads arms watching football (it was some sort of important final). I went to bed.
I think we are bonded just fine.

and have been struggling with anxiety in terms of leaving baby to go out for the evening with DH. There's all this information out there about bonding etc and I'm just worried DD might miss me.

No, there is absolutely no information to suggest it is problematic for a father to care for his own child without the supervision of the mother.
It sounds like your anxiety is actually ruining your husbands relationship with his own baby if he’s having to try to convince you that it’s okay for him to be alone with his child.

No I said for DH and I to go out together!

Sorry I wish I could edit that. I agree, anyone can go through the surrogacy route. It's just how DH said it and I wasn't really thinking when I wrote the post.

I went out for an evening when DS was 8 weeks old. It's not done him any harm. You don't have to do anything you don't feel comfortable with but a few hours out won't have any impact with bonding.

Just to say - If you’re not ready to leave your baby you don’t have to, and you don’t need to let dh guilt you into it either

Yes you are BU 🙄

Of course you aren’t being unreasonable. And if you don’t want to leave your 9 week old, that’s not anxiety, that’s nature, and lots of reasons could dictate this decision (E.g. demand breastfeeding). Don’t ignore your gut instincts. Ignore the external noise. Just see what you and your baby need right now. Fuck all the judgement and irrelevant comments. (And FWIW, I agree with your sentiments about the surrogacy issue. I had to drop a friend of mine because I couldn’t bear to watch what he and his husband had done straight after I had given birth myself).

My Mum held for less than 1 minute the day after i was born for the Priest to Christen me but then didn't hold me again for nearly 2 weeks and that was only for a few moments at a time until i was 5 weeks. I loved my mum more than life itself and miss her every day. Being in an incubator didn't harm our bond.

Need is an overused word

While something may have significant benefits (according to statistical studies) that doesn't mean it is essential for normal development.

This sort of absolutist thinking is really damaging to anyone that doesn't manage to do whatever the thing we are talking about is.

Surrogacy is ethically dubious but there are lots of other scenarios where the mother is not able to care for the baby from birth or not the primary carer. Those babies are not damaged because of it. They don't specifically NEED the person who gave birth to them. What they NEED is someone who takes care of them properly.

Mother with eclampsia or other condition that puts her in intensive care
Baby in intensive care
Mum's with serious mental health problems
Mothers who die during childbirth
Women who give up a baby for adoption, where bonding would probably be more harmful in the long run.
Mum's who need to start cancer treatment
Mothers who are a danger and have their children taken away at birth

All good reasons, and looked after properly as any mother would do they will be just as fine as a baby with its birth mother would be.

That doesn't work at this age. Far too young to understand- or remember- that you'll come back/came back last time.

^This.

Babies will bond will anyone who gives them love, care and sustenance.

*as their primary carer, especially

Why is it only ‘gay dads’ you’re worried about, rather than adoptive/foster parents, straight couples who use surrogates, the babies of women who die giving birth or any number of other situations?

The baby needs to bond with the person who will be caring for it. That isn’t always its birth mother.

I don’t think it’s necessary. Closeness with another human, security, food, comfort. That’s what babies need. I don’t think it makes a huge difference who that is.

Well yes in some circumstances eg death in childbirth, adoption etc the birth mother is by definition “replaceable”. And I don’t believe (if that’s what you are saying) that all surrogates are “desperate”. Your sports analogy is not relevant to this topic

Its our own egos that make us think our babies will be scarred if parted from us. If you have a night away, you'll care more than the baby who will be very happy with Dad.

With regards to gay Dad's. A baby will bond with its primary caregiver and will be fine.