To be considered very outspoken

[Tealdownunder]

I am not sure if I have posted in the right section but I wanted to see what the general consensus is around people who are outspoken?

Since my early 40's I have noticed I have become more and more outspoken and really do not seem to be able to filter anything that comes out 🤣. I try and contain it at work but occasionally it has ruffled a few feathers. My DH and DC are used to me now but friends often look aghast when I just can't seem to stop the words coming out. I read a good practice is to think about what you're going to say before allowing the words out but the moment to say something would have then passed and the opportunity to say something would be gone!

Not sure what I think will happen if I don't get my point across but I'm keen to hear if anyone else is the same or was the same and has successfully changed!

I am due to start a new position at work next week working more with our clients so I feel I need to work on this!

I’ve had this my whole life. Been called ‘brutally honest’, usually by men. Way back to school days, when I wouldn’t stand for creepy behaviour from a certain teacher.

I honestly don’t know I’m doing it. I’m not rude, I don’t talk over people, I hold back a lot, if only people knew it.

But I won’t tolerate bullshit, and I won’t tow the party line if I disagree with something. Working in education, that became a problem.

To be clear, my honesty extends to myself. I’ve been known to drop myself in the shit and been prepared to take what’s coming my way.

I’ve never heard a man called out for being this way. Just saying.

Speaking your mind isn’t necessarily a bad thing but shouldn’t be done just for the sake of it. I guess you could ask yourself, is is necessary for me to say this?

I don't think all friends are aghast, they are all different personalities and I can think of a few who are very insensitive and have said offensive comments about people. I happen to just be a little direct, have an opinion and most people I meet whether professionally or personally will comment how kind and gentle I am but I personally think I am a bit direct at times. Perhaps this isn't outspoken I am not sure but I appear to have been understandably given opinions based on what I have said which doesn't really reflect the person I am ( I will blame the translation on my ipad).

Completely agree.

I have to agree with you @LunaNorth . This is me. I have been in some very difficult times and have really had to stand up for myself.

Can you think of it like cooking a good meal.
You don't want to slave away in the kitchen creating a taste sensation and then throw it on the plate in a mess and sling the plate down in front of the diner.
It would taste just as good! So why don't we do that!?
We don't, instead, we make a fabulous meal then arrange it on the plate nicely, put the plate down gently and it looks as good as it tastes!
All your work in the kitchen is upheld by the reception the meal gets when the diners eyes light up at the dish they see.
Your skills are fully appreciated.

Just be yourself, OP. Don’t worry about it.

My advice @Tealdownunder is to learn to pick your battles.

And if you upset someone who is an unpleasant bullying jerk then don’t sweat it. If you upset people who are reasonable and nice then think about how to approach things differently.

My go-to setting is to be outspoken. However, it didn't take long for me to realise that its not well received and only leads to negativity, on the whole.
Nowadays, I can filter the words that come out of my mouth pretty well, with tact.

My face, on the other hand, can tell no lies. It's an automatic thing that I'd be completely unaware of if it weren't for family/friends telling me that I do it.

Because I'm aware of it, I do remind myself - especially in formal or work situations - to straighten my face! I just consider it an aspect of personal development and that by trying to work on it, I'm improving my interactions an relationships with other people. It can sometimes feel insincere and shallow but realistically, most of my day-to-day interactions at work and formal situations are insincere and shallow. So, I play the game of 'adulting' and do my best.

The people I love, who know me well, I can be more open with; facially and verbally!

Actually just thinking of this in my last job I was there for 3 years, everyone was very kind, no awful personalities on the whole to work with and I never had to be direct and blunt. In my job where I am now there are lots of narcissistic, passive aggressive and bullying behaviour so I have to step it up a notch and be more direct so I am not like this all the time. My DH can also be quite controlling so with him I also have to be quite direct and not allow myself to be controlled.

How many times have you heard a man talking shit and you've let it slide because you can't be bothered with the argument?

I have a really good friend who tells it like it is. She's never rude unless she has to be but one thing I know, is where I stand and I love her more for it. I think the no filter thing increases with age and being more confident can be a good thing.

I’m the same with the face thing. I’m not going to change though. Walking around self-editing all the time is exhausting, and inauthentic. I’ll do it when the blokes do (eg never).

Well exactly and those types of personalities dislike being challenged. Particularly if you are actually smarter than them and they feel threatened. It sounds awful fwiw.

Good for you for admitting it OP and deciding to work on it. That shows you are a good person and do consider those around you.
I have the impression that there are a lot more ‘outspoken’ people around than say 5/10 years ago. Sadly sites like this one don’t help - everyone can mouth off anonymously and get used to that, and then they become gobby in RL too. Or could be for other reasons, no idea.

@PimpMyFridge’s long post is a good one, OP, but it sounds as though there are cultural factors at play (assuming you’re Latvian in the UK?), as well as your autism. The UK is a particularly indirect culture for some foreigners, but, having lived 25 years in England, I had to relearn my manners when I returned to my home country, which is even more indirect.

I do also agree that there are gendered as well as cultural factors at play. I had my child in the UK and it wasn’t until I met a lot of English women in a room together in an all-female situation at a baby group, that I understood why some posters on Mn are baffled, shocked and furious at civil disagreement — they’ve clearly never had anyone straightforwardly disagree with them in person. The communication was extremely indirect and operated via self-deprecation (‘Look at me, I look like a whale in these trousers!’) designed to elicit a chorus of contradictions (‘Are you kidding? You’re TINY!’) No one ever voiced direct disagreement.

You also say you’ve ‘become more outspoken’ recently — what is going on there?

You also say you’ve ‘become more outspoken’ recently — what is going on there?

It sounds like she is an a fairly toxic environment at work.

Yes @Tealdownunder I am in an awful team. Very ego driven and toxic so I have had to be outspoken more. Actually, this is probably more about the people/environments/Workplaces I am in than me. Probably just a case of not taking any rubbish when it is aimed at me in a nasty, horrible manner. I need new people around me!

Add in what you say about a toxic work culture and a controlling husband, maybe it's not actually you that's the issue?

I have to say nothing at times. But you are right that thinking what you say before you say it means the moment has past.

I'm starting to think that the only thing that's changed is that you have stopped tolerating people's bullshit.

I think so too. I think I am at a chapter in my life where I am sick of listening to offensive comments/people being insensitive to others and me being expected to be used in some incidences as I help everyone, consider people's feelings and now I am just fed up with tolerating it. I think I have now started putting boundaries in my life, particularly in my personal life and people do not like it. I won't tolerate having to put up with toxic workplaces so I move on. Is this so bad? I have never been called rude nor have I ever caused offence. Plenty of people in my life are and have been offensive, said and done hurtful things but they are never as direct as me. I think this is them and not me. Sounds arrogant perhaps to say but these posts have given me the chance to reflect so thank you all.

these posts have given me the chance to reflect Go forth in confidence!

I don't see a problem with how you are acting. I am Scandinavian though and we are a lot more direct than people in the UK. I really favour directness over falling over backwards trying not to offend anyone but at the same time not getting anywhere because you might come across as rude. At my age I can no longer deal with sugar coating everything and playing indecisive when I am not.

I am also autistic and in my forties and found myself more direct recently to the extent that yes two colleagues have found it rude.

I think the older I am the less willing I am to mask and not masking is so much better for mental health quite honestly I’m not willing to go back.
The idea that NT communication is what we should all aspire to even though it leaves ND people with significant mental health issues is ableist. NT people need to learn to deal.

Personally I’ve weighed up how much I’m willing to mask, for example I mask with patients in my job, expect to have to explain to colleagues that I am autistic and may come across as direct and I apologise sometimes where it greases wheels but I’m not willing to mask all the time anymore and I’m not willing to feel guilty about it. I accept some NT colleagues won’t like me but honestly mostly once they know me they do.

As for friends, I find NT people generally aren’t honest or straight enough to be comfortable friends so it doesn’t really impact as it is far easier to be friends with mostly fellow ND people.