Would you move to Cape Town?

[ZarZarGabor]

Sorry posting here for traffic.

A good job opportunity has come up to move to Cape Town with work, likely for 3 years or so. We have one pre-school age child and are aware childcare options there are more affordable.

We have spent some time there before and so are alive to some of the issues the country faces including crime, load shedding and bureaucracy. However we still absolutely love the place and want an adventure.

Would be grateful to hear the views of people who have direct experience living there, especially with a young child.

I know lots of people will have a “friend of a friend” who has had bad experiences in South Africa, but I’d really like to hear from people who actually live or have lived there about day to day life for an expat and the sorts of considerations we might have forgotten to factor into (we have already considered visas, healthcare, security, costly mobile phone data etc).

thanks for any advice.

The security situation and corruption is dire, with this of course linked. If OP is going to go, it is worth sharing security tips from being in CT/in the region. Some points below, though there are lots of great aspects in the region too.

Getting a thorough briefing before travelling (choosing where to live) and on arrival.
Having permanent security, rather than trying to call if there is a problem.
Looking after people working at your home, so they can get home safely and have a good standard of living and care.
Having a generator, so security systems work.
If choosing a flat, not to be on the ground or first/second floor because of the potential for break-ins. Also not to be too high in the building as fire alarms may fail and rescue may be limited.
If in a gated community, not to have a home on the perimeter away from the security point in case anyone scales the wall.
Guard dogs need to be highly trained, under control and not pose a danger to the family.

Having a second mobile phone on a different network and always keeping both charged.
Topping up the car when it is half full.
Etc., etc.

Making sure kids are safe in water and monitored as there are lots of pools.
Clearing through outdoor play areas in case of snakes and making sure kids are aware.

OH lived in SA aged 18 months to 14 years.

He absolutely loved his childhood there, he still talks about it very regularly. Never wore shoes. No need for central heating. Fresh fish and diet rich in great quality steak and vegetables. Regular BBQs. Swam in the sea, spent whole weekends in the beach, saw loads of wildlife (his family travelled round a lot with Fathers work).

Without going into to much detail he's had a truly miserable life since returning to the UK, and reminisces fondly about his childhood. He loved growing up there. Due to exchange rate he'd be very very well off if he moved back. He still has close family there he'd love to spend time with. Would he go living there again? Never in a million years. Too violent by far. He says it was bad enough when he was little, but is so much worse now with guns being so widespread. The program of rolling electrical power cuts plays havoc with trying to reasonably run a home. He won't even got back on holiday to show me any of the places he lived.

It's a beautiful place really but after hearing stories about gruesome crime. I can't sorry I just can't 😥

Is it possible to vote the government out or are the elections rigged?

Is it possible to vote the government out or are the elections rigged?

The elections are largely fine. The issue is that the ANC for years got an over two-thirds majority which gave them complete control. Their percentages have gradually declined and they've lost their 2/3rds majority now but will likely still win the next election.

Initially they got huge landslides as the struggle party who had brought about the end of apartheid and had Mandela as leader. Over time the issue became more that there isn't any massively credible opposition. There's the DA, who run the province Cape Town is in. They are far more efficient and less corrupt but are unfortunately widely seen as too white (and they have a tendency to gaffes in this direction unfortunately). The other opposition party with any sort of numbers is the EFF and they are batshit Marxists.

There also tend to be gazillions of smaller parties that split the vote a bit.

If by some miracle the ANC does lose I do think it will trigger political violence though. There's a lot of people on the gravy train who won't want to lose that.

I've worked with two South Africans, one black lady and one white man. Mriki (South African lady) moved here 15 years ago and has no plans to go back, not even to visit. One of her daughters followed suit and moved with her family here but her other daughter still lives there, they are in Durban.

She told me the story of how her next door neighbour (elderly) was gang raped, robbed and they cut both of her breasts off. She didn't survive.

The white South African, said he came here after he was stabbed on a bus. He lived there 21 years of his life and says he will never return and will certainly never take any of his children there.

I don't think these stories coming from direct sources, people who've lived there and witnessed these kinds of things, can be forgotten about and swept under the rug by people keen to visit. I know I would never go because of the people I know who lost family, friends and almost their own lives due to the violent crimes that happen every single day out there.

Why do you mention the woman by name and not the man, out of interest?

I think too it's very different situation having a 2 week holiday staying in a hotel situation or organised trips to wildlife/vineyards to actually living there . Although it's different again I have a Brazilian friend who also says she doesn't feel safe and doesn't go back to visit.

Interested to read of a white South African on a bus 🤔

Seconded

@JudgeAnderson I don't know really! His name is Michael. I didn't consciously leave his name out.

@JayAlfredPrufrock @LemonDrizzleDessert why are you interested to read of it? I'm just saying what he told me. (All of us colleagues have seen the scar from his stab wound).

@JayAlfredPrufrock I used to get the bus or even minibus taxi and I am a white South African woman, moved to the UK at 31, only managed to get my driving license in the UK.

@elm26 I think the thing is that notwithstanding jujulabs and your friend's experience, the reality is that white people don't routinely take busses in South Africa - certainly, I'd never taken a public bus in my life until I moved here. Trains, yes, busses - hell no. And to bring it back to the original OP - based on what she's said, the sort of lifestyle she's going to live in Cape Town if she goes is not one that will involve, for example, using public transport or routinely travelling in particularly dangerous areas.

Just like I said that a group plotting in Afrikaans to kill tourists in a cafe in Cape Town just isn't that believable based on the reality of Cape Town. The sad truth is that I can see a situation where a bunch of tourists were being all nervous Nelly and a bit irritating and so someone in the cafe decided to take the piss out of them and terrify them. Which obviously wouldn't be okay either but is, frankly, more likely. Or that this story has somehow evolved in some way since it originally happened.

@Triffid1 @JudgeAnderson
Thanks for replying to my reply.
We are going for 12 days, booked flights and hire car and an apartment in Seapoint. It has secure parking and concierge.
We plan to see all the tourist sites, table mountain, kirstenbosch, Boulders beach, cape point.
I was considering booking flights to port Elizabeth and going to Addo for a quick safari if that's not too optimistic.

Any advice and reassurance you could give would be much appreciated. Feel free to pm me, I don't want to detract from the thread. Thank you both.

@KellyMarieTunstall2

Addo is wonderful so I hope you are able to do that. Once you're in the game reserve I think it's very safe. Drive carefully on the road from PE (and try to build in a stop at the Nanaga farm stall en route).

@KellyMarieTunstall2 Will PM you shortly. But in summary- it's going to be amazing!

@ZarZarGabor so did you end uo moving? Just about to leave Cape Town and loved it (on holiday)

I've never been but I hear it is very dangerous.

Have you checked out load shedding and the impact in the area ou would be based ? I have several friends still based in SA ( looking to move away) and they are fed up with load shedding. As a result they have to have noisy generators - which don’t always work and they are prone to the fuel being stolen . Particularly the impact this would have on your air con, fridge / freezer / electronic gates , constantly remembering to keep your phone / laptop etc. charged.

No way

Didn't feel safe when I visited

Moving to a country currently experiencing a surge in a new form of Mpox - sufficiently worrying to have been declared a global public health emergency - would be a strange choice, for me.

Even in Africa, these people bring their evils. Don’t even belong there.

It sounds to me as though you've already decided to go and, from the many, many responses you've had on here, are trawling through them trying to pick out the positive ones that will back up your decision, when it's quite clear that the vast majority are highlighting the very real dangers & problems of living there. I've never been & don't want to but like many on here have worked with SA's and know some as neighbours and they ALL say the same thing - it's dangerous & lawless. I won't list all the things they've told me as it'll just be a re-hash of what's already been said but if I were you, I would seriously reconsider thinking of going to live there for 3 years. What might sound like an adventure to you on paper could very well be a nightmare in reality. I wouldn't dream of exposing my children to such incredibly high risks. Are there not other 'working/living abroad' options that would still offer an adventurous experience but be a he'll of a lot safer? I Hooe you decide against going to SA.

Is South Africa experiencing a monkey pox surge?

My colleague moved here last year from Cape Town she said she won’t ever go back because it’s too dangerous- she was born and raised there so I would assume she has the measure of the situation.