Would you move to Cape Town?

[ZarZarGabor]

Sorry posting here for traffic.

A good job opportunity has come up to move to Cape Town with work, likely for 3 years or so. We have one pre-school age child and are aware childcare options there are more affordable.

We have spent some time there before and so are alive to some of the issues the country faces including crime, load shedding and bureaucracy. However we still absolutely love the place and want an adventure.

Would be grateful to hear the views of people who have direct experience living there, especially with a young child.

I know lots of people will have a “friend of a friend” who has had bad experiences in South Africa, but I’d really like to hear from people who actually live or have lived there about day to day life for an expat and the sorts of considerations we might have forgotten to factor into (we have already considered visas, healthcare, security, costly mobile phone data etc).

thanks for any advice.

It just seems to be getting worse so even if you were ok in the first year or two, I'd be so nervous of what is going to end up happening. My TikTok has just been full of the violence associated with the taxi strikes in Cape Town, it looked horrific.

I've never been and I'd love to go as my friend is from there. But she hasn't been for years and while she used to say it's fine if you know where to avoid, she also said that as a rape victim she finds comfort in being there because such high numbers of the popultation have been victims of severe violence or sexual violence that she didn't feel stigmatised and you could always find support on a bad day. That made me go, hell no to going until it is hopefully one day much safer. It does look like a magical country in terms of its positives.

Interestingly, a British friend of mine married to a South African moved over here last year from Cape Town. They are now moving back as they missed the lifestyle so much. With kids.

Yes crime, load shedding etc, but I'd consider it for a limited term adventure.

Caveat: I used to work in war zones so I might be a bit cavalier!

It's beautiful to holiday in but the reality of living there is that you and your DC will not have the freedoms you enjoy in the UK. Gated communities, bars on windows, impossible to walk or drive anywhere you like, you have to keep your wits about you. What is happening to South Africa and its people is a crying shame and I would never go back to live there again.

As a woman with dc, I wouldn’t even consider a holiday, let alone move there.

I don’t know tons of South Africans, but every one I have ever met has only had horror stories to tell about their country. The land itself seems like one of the most beautiful places, but the crime isn’t worth it, no matter how cheap the childcare.

Absolutely not.

Have heard first hand some serious, unusual for the UK type of violent crimes from both visitors and tourists. Including one couple who were robbed and threatened with having their hands chopped off if the wedding rings, bracelets and watches didn't come off in the next 10 seconds on their own honeymoon. The robbers did this just a step away from the airport in a taxi robbery and they were planned, armed with large chopping knives to do it then and there.

Hearing that level of violence repeatedly makes me think you'd be mad to go there. You hear about terrible stories in every country of course, but the sheer normalisation of brutal violent crimes beyond any sort of proportion to its population... No fucking way would I go. Not a chance in hell.

1, don’t walk around at night
2, don’t be flashy with your belongings
3, stay the fuck away from townships
4, Avoid Cape Flats

Those I knows that live/d there are/were indeed armed to the teeth, on top of having private security. There’s a high level of gang and gun violence in Cape Town and people arm themselves accordingly:
https://ewn.co.za/topic/cape-town-gun-violence

I was there for work for 2 months. In that time two people were shot and killed outside the gates of the place we were staying in two separate incidents. I felt really uncomfortable with the need for armed security at the gates of our complex and I felt very unsafe driving around especially at night. I don't know anyone who hasn't been robbed/ had their security dogs poisoned. I would consider it if it was just me and dh but no way would I bring my child there. I'd be worried about their safety and what they'd be exposed to. The poverty and corruption is horrendous and I wouldn't feel comfortable turning a blind eye to that in order to enjoy myself so I don't think I'd be able to (nor would I want to) switch off from that. I don't think it would give the quality of life you think it would and there's lots of other places I'd go before SA as beautiful as it is.

If you are born there you can live quite happily as you become used to a certain level of daily stress and/or fear that you actually don't even notice as it's low level. If you are born in the UK, it would be an extremely difficult adjustment because violent crime is just not as prevalent here.

Black people are victims of crime there, just as much as white people are.

Well yes obviously, but from what I understand attacks on white farmers are rising and mood escalating so I wondered if it's only farmers or if it has branched out to all white (and generally light) folk

I’m South African but emigrated 15 years ago because of crime and my personal experience of it. My cousin was an A&E doctor in Cape Town and has said she will never move back to SA after what she saw working in the hospitals around CT. It’s just not worth it.

I've got a friend in Cape Town, and no it's not safe in the slightest. Panic rooms, private security, guns in every room, don't stop for anything when driving anywhere. Is that really how you want to live? She's married to a wealthy south African so they can afford to live in a very nice area and he knows how to stay safe, but even so, its bloody dodgy. The other issue she has is that although she has a great job out there, she still has to come back to the UK every three months to renew her work visa, and she has lived in SA for decades.

So no, you couldn't pay me enough to go and live there. I also think that I couldn't be morally comfortable in a country of such extremes and such corruption.

I'm not sure to be honest but the violence does feel indiscriminate, I think because it stems from poverty. You can sense the desperation in the country, it's so sad.

My husband is from Cape Town.

He, both his siblings, his parents, all his cousins and his uncle all moved to the UK to get away from there.

If the posting is for three years, you're not exactly burning your bridges with home. If you want to do it, despite the crime (which would worry me, I have to say - I have never been, but have close relatives there).

The fact that there is no social security and many South Africans feel that there is no future for their kids there is irrelevant. It's a simply a short, paid adventure, which you say Is something that you are craving.

I'm African but not SA and I'd never live or even visit, there are safer places in Africa to visit and live if that's what your looking for... I think people are very interested in SA due to the fact a lot of white peoples live there well SA govt don't give a f--k about y'all.

No. A colleague was shot and killed there just over a week ago. It’s a lawless place.

I had 2 little boys from SA in my year 2 class when I was teaching. We were chatting about this and that one day and I asked what the best thing about their new life in the UK was. " We can play outside with friends" they said. In SA they went everywhere by car and ,when they got home, they stayed in their locked house and gated garden. In the UK they could ride their bikes in their cul-de-sac and call for their friends.

All the people on this thread seem to know someone who has moved away because of fear of crime.... these are the extreme m cases. There are thousands of ordinary South Africans who take a more philosophical view and have no intention of leaving their homes.

@Norney - that's quite a leap you have made there.

No, as examples, I meant that they were unable to let their children travel/walk/cycle to friend's houses because of the violence, no longer able to go out at night, particularly as a lone woman and were not safe in their own homes.

I lived there for seven years but moved back 14 years ago. I loved living there for many reasons but hated the wild difference between the haves and the have nots. Eg Camps Bay where you have people driving their wanky cars up and down the strip with a mini settlement just a stone’s throw away. My DH (from Sa) and 16 year old DD went there on holiday this year (SA not Cape Town and had a fantastic time.). We still have family and friends living there and they’re ok. Would I move back there? Probably not as we moved here but for family reasons not safety. I’d say go for a three year adventure! You sound like you know the risks but are up for it.

Yabu. No of course I wouldn't move to Cape Town. I like it where I live.

They can be as philosophical as they like but it won't protect them from the violence that is endemic there now. Anyone I know who still lives there is there because they cannot get a visa or passport to get the hell out.