To think people who want "safe routes to migration" into the UK are hopelessly naive

[ForestGoblin]

We could spend every penny of public money on bringing refugees to the UK in comfy and safe boats and planes. We could make it mandatory for every home to provide accommodation and food. We could ban healthcare for anyone except refugees.

And there would still be thousands and thousands of boat crossings every year and millions more people languishing in bad situations and trying to figure out how to get here or elsewhere in northern Europe.

It's a crap situation. Life is bad. I feel dreadful for them.

But "safe routes" is a load of glib nonsense that can't work.

In the interests of factual accuracy it is not possible for an asylum seeker to enter the UK illegal, as this article explains.

https://levinslaw.co.uk/dinghies-in-the-channel-illegal-entrants-and-immigration-offences/

With a bridge to Antarctica perhaps?

Amazing what happens when countries work together isn't it.

Its almost as if the UKs lack of application of the Dublin agreement when we were in the UK, was on the UK government.

The reality right now is that the only route for economic unskilled migrants is extremely unsafe boats/illegal routes.

This does actually deter all but the most persistent - billions of people in poor countries do not attempt it.

Setting up "safe routes" for migration from countries like Nigeria, Albania and Pakistan, would actually increase the demand to migrate from these countries from those less persistent, more cautious people who won't risk the boats.

This is disastrous for those countries. It leads to huge brain drain as young, educated workers leave.

It is not the answer.

Better answers?

Economic support to help improve life in those countries. Better quality aid aimed at improving education and infrastructure. Requirements for foreign corporates to knowledge share and train local staff. JV structures requiring part local ownership so that the value derived from exploiting the resources of these territories is shared with them.

Reduce the exports of unprocessed low value goods and support third world countries to develop the expertise to refine and process their own materials amd benefit from the much higher profits.

People won't want to migrate if we make it better where they live.

I doubt it’s all roses between Italy and France if people read beyond U.K.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/11/migrant-rescue-ship-arrives-in-france-after-italian-refusal

"I was struck by the aggressive reaction from the French government which from my point of view is incomprehensible and unjustified," Meloni told a news conference, adding that Italy could not be the only destination for migrants from Africa.

The majority of people arriving by boat are refugees and asulym seekers, not economic unskilled migrants

But those who are not refugees might have added to the UK population so much last year, that they added up to the number of people who live in a large village.

The majority of people arriving by boat are refugees and asulym seekers, not economic unskilled migrants

The definitions are quite subjective. Many people would argue that while lots would describe themselves as refugees, or would have the intention of seeking asylum, they are also economic migrants whose main aim in reaching the UK is primarily economic.

I wonder how they can return people without assessing their claims and others do not

The claim by pp that Italy and France are ‘working together’ seems a stretch. Given recent news linked below

The clue that they are refugees, might be in the government granting them asylum?

I take it @Yellowlegobrick you do not think the UK should take economic migrants?

The definitions are quite subjective

• Refugee
• The definition of a refugee according to The 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is:
• “A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.”
• In the UK, a person becomes a refugee when government agrees that an individual who has applied for asylum meets the definition in the Refugee Convention they will ‘recognise’ that person as a refugee and issue them with refugee status documentation. Usually refugees in the UK are given five years’ leave to remain as a refugee. They must then must apply for further leave, although their status as a refugee is not limited to five years.
• Person seeking asylum
• A person who has left their country of origin and formally applied for asylum in another country but whose application has not yet been concluded. Wherever possible, we prefer to describe someone as a person seeking asylum as we feel that the term asylum seeker is dehumanising.
• Refused asylum applicant
• A person whose asylum application has been unsuccessful and who has no other claim for protection awaiting a decision. Some people who have their case refused voluntarily return home, others are forcibly returned. For some, it is not safe or practical to return until conditions in their country change.
• Migrant
• Someone who has moved to another country for other reasons, such as to find work.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/the-truth-about-asylum/?gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIttKn77LogAMVDdN3Ch1YDwlUEAAYASAAEgKPOvD_BwE

DuncinToffee

At the moment the country from which the highest % of boat travellers originate (28%) is Albania.

There's no war or conflict there, these aren't asylum seekers.

DuncinToffee
"A well founded fear". Clearly there's a degree of subjectivity to terms like these. My "well founded fear" could be extremely different to others.

I mean fear itself is hugely varying. Some people find certain situations far more fear inducing than others, mental health & religion can also play a part in how you perceive situations.

It's possible for one person to perceive danger where others think there is none.

I take it @Yellowlegobrickyou do not think the UK should take economic migrants?

I think our economy has enough poor, unhoused people already here and adding more will not improve the lives of any of them. There simply isn't enough housing to safely accomodate more people.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/

Since 2018, the nationals of five countries – Iran, Albania, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria – made up 71% of those crossing in small boats

Iranian (21%), Albanian (15%), Iraqi (15%), Afghan (13%), or Syrian (7%).

The UK asylum system is strictly controlled and complex. It is very difficult for people seeking asylum to provide the evidence required to be granted protection. Despite these challenges, the majority of asylum claims are successful. In the year ending June 2022, 76% of initial decisions resulted in a grant of asylum or other form of protection.

The government estimates that there are 700,000 empty homes in the UK, although there are some suggestions this is an underestimate and the true figure is over a million.

There is no problem with the number of homes in the UK, but simply in their uneven distribution.

I am pleased to have been able to clarify that for you.

Its 28% Albanian in the most recent year.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/https-inews-co-uk-news-politics-uk-politics-live-sunak-pressure-migration-targets-speech-channel-crossings-2386216entry-2386697-2387334#:~:text=Most%20people%20arriving%20via%20small,%2C%20Egypt%2C%20Turkey%20and%20India.

Jgw1 ok so can they start housing the thousands of children in b&b accomodation in them first please?

Why are these travellers from Albania higher priority than children already here?

I don't know why you're attacking me.

Do you really think its a better outcome for people to be displaced, than for our country to work to reduce conflicts and share wealth more effectively with poorer nations so their populations can live safely and comfortably in their own homes & don't have to feel they must migrate?

We have a higher acceptance rate and different bar when assessing applications

There was a good post ages ago from someone who does the interviews

@DuncinToffee

The figure for Albanians migrants in 2022 was 28%.

Albanian migrants: Why are they coming to the UK and how many have arrived?

www.bbc.com/news/explainers-63473022.amp

@Yellowlegobrick you make good points but I’m not sure how much we can really impact to stop people movement. It’s such a huge job, including criminality too plus climate adding more pushes on top

You are not being attacked but you are also not acknowleging that these people are mostly refugees and asylum seekers and not migrants.

How do you suggest the government improves the political situation in Afghanistan for example?