To wonder whether menstrual and menopause leave is a good thing?

[prettyvisitors]

name changed as this involves my work, so I don’t want to be identified.

My company are currently looking into their policies, and have been asked by some staff to consider making changes or additions to various policies. We have a very active women’s network at work, which is a great part of working for my company as there’s a space to discuss women’s issues in and out of work, and it creates a lovely atmosphere. Some members of the group have asked SLT to look into offering specific menstrual and menopause leave, which is a new concept although is being offered at some other companies. The idea is you will get some paid leave on top of normal sick leave to accommodate women’s health issues.

Am I being unreasonable to feel uncomfortable with this? When I’ve seen discussions of it prior to this conversation at work I’ve not liked it, as I don’t love the idea that women need “special time off” from work just simply because they’re women. I’m worried it becomes more of a way for men to not hire us, in the same way maternity leave clearly still impacts women in the workplace. Our workplace already has a generous fully paid sick leave allowance and a very flexible working policy with complete working from home if you want to, as and when, so I feel that a lot of menstrual issues can be covered in this way under the standard policy without needing to target women. But then again, I know I really benefit from and enjoy more open discussion of these things at our work, so maybe this is just the next step?

I don’t know, my thoughts aren’t fully formed enough to discuss them in our women’s group yet as some people are very passionate about it, and I don’t want to upset them or make them feel against something when I don’t really know how I feel.

Wondering if anyone else has any better ideas than me on it?

It’s a terrible idea - makes it look like our biology makes us inherently unreliable and some women will definitely take the piss, If your periods or menopause makes you too sick to work, then take sick leave. Menopause symptoms are likely covered by disability legislation in any event.

@HermioneWeasley see, this is my gut reaction as well! I don’t like what it says about women not being capable of working in the same way as men. It feels dated.

I'm very conflicted about all of this too, including extended maternity leave.

I understand all the reasons to do it and of course it ought to be good for women, but I can't help thinking it all makes us less attractive to employ.

I think if you work for a company who are able to be flexible enough for you to work from home if you have period or menopausal problems, then it's probably not necessary. However, there are still a lot of companies out there, run by men, who don't really understand, even in this day and age, how badly a woman's day can be affected by either a period or menopause. I've left work now, but remember a friend of mine who was going through menopause, who regularly had 3 or 4 days off every month, caused by migraines. Her boss mentioned to me that she was always having time off which was very inconsiderate, and so I asked him had it never clicked that the time off was always monthly. Suddenly the blinkers came off, and he realised what I was talking about, so I think having a policy where women are covered for time off under these circumstances, can only be a good thing. After all, not everyone is lucky enough to be working for employers who try to accommodate the needs of their staff.

I think its a terrible idea too.

The only concession is lots of places have that sick leave thing where short frequent absences are penalised as in having 5 individual days off is worse than having 1 week off and you get hauled in to HR to explain. It sort of reflects the way illnesses like flu, broken limbs etc present but doesnt really reflect the cyclical nature of some female medical issues.

Agree with you OP!

I am inclined to agree with you.

We shouldn't normalise the idea that time off is needed for menstrual issues, we should be ensuring women have access to suitable medical investigation and treatment if they are that seriously affected.

I wonder if the halfway house to suggest a menstrual and menopause policy that clearly sets out that flexible working and home working can be used for these issues and any other helpful policies.

What about specific menopause support being available via private healthcare providers as a benefit?

Do you have private healthcare? Can this be used for menstrual issues? Is it worth making this clear?

You know what should be introduce is miscarriage leave. Having recently had one and struggled to get sufficient leave!

I think it's a bit pathetic tbh. Sorry. I'm old school. If you have a medical problem you should get medical attention and treatment. Otherwise it's just biology. What next? Days off when you need a hair cut? Eyebrows tinted. Jeez

And I agree, whilst on the face of it it seems a good idea, if someone is struggling that much with periods or menopause, they should be supported in a more holistic way than just having leave.

I have endometriosis and my period pain is not normal pain. There are many times I have had to drag myself into work and just sit there being unproductive for fear of taking too many sick days! It’s not just the pain it’s everything that goes with it.

So I would fully welcome menstrual leave, but I would guess it would need to be capped in some way? It’s not very practical to potentially take 2 days off every 3/4 weeks.

I’m not sure. I’m in a job that’s front line customer facing, so can’t be done from home. I do struggle sometimes so on that hand it’s a great idea. I see what you’re saying re the unreliability though.

Honestly at the minute that leave would be amazing for me
I'm going through a diagnosis/waiting for a referral for endometriosis. On my period the pain comes in randomly and is so bad that morphine doesn't touch it, I had to go off sick and I've triggered a meeting

Dreading next month in case it happens again and I have to ring in sick with "period pain" which is actually me whimpering on all fours unable to move in case I pass out

With how long referrals/operations/appointments take it could be really useful for some people, even the menopause one for getting used to HRT/getting the medication sorted

But you know how long that takes? In the meantime you could have the leave

I've said for years I have endometriosis. So far I've had two months in a row where I can't work
A scan was 6 weeks wait. My appointment to see gynae is October (that's because I took a different hospital, my local is March 2024)
Then waiting time for a laparoscopy for diagnosis and possibly treatment
I could well be off sick every month for 12 months with the waiting lists and I'm going to be in deep shit with the sickness policy

I feel the same as you OP and PPs have articulated it better than me. I was discussing this with a woman at work a while back and she thought it was a wonderful idea and couldn't really see my point that essentially calling it "women's issues" sounds so dated and ostracizing. I think it would harm women in general more than it would help a specific few.

The waiting time for a laparoscopy on the NHS in Edinburgh is 18 months - and that’s if you’re lucky enough for a GP to refer you to gynae. Took me 20 years of pain for a GP to send me for ultrasounds!

That should absolutely be a thing.

What about if instead of it being specific additional menstrual leave, it was a policy about both the flexible/home working mentioned above but also some kind of adjustment to the sickness absence monitoring i.e. not hauling you over the coals for having 3 instances of time off in a given period if it's due to menstruation or similar?

This, maybe the sickness policy needs reviewing.

oh I’m so glad I posted, some great points being made! Here are some more thoughts I have from reading posts:

1. completely agree about jobs that are different from a corporate 9-5 where you can flexibly work from home needing different things, and this possibly being more use and more relevant there
2. also really true (and something that I hadn’t thought of!) that serious, recurring issues that require multiple absences shouldn’t be normalised and should be investigated. This is so so important I think, particularly as it’s becoming clear how poor the NHS is at diagnosing endo and PCOS
3. I’m so sorry for the people who do have horrendous issues with periods and are struggling to get the nhs to take them seriously or waiting absurd times to get answers.

I think this would be an ideal compromise. I’m actually definitely going to suggest this. (And thank you to the other poster who said similar!)

No I don't think there should be paid leave. Adaptation of hours and other accomadations. Endo could come under disability in the equality act.

I also agree miscarriage leave should be a thing - again our company is actually very generous around this and other bereavements but I wish the rest of the world would catch up to being more compassionate.

No, awful idea.
Normal sick leave can be used if necessary.

A colleague has PMDD and OH have said this is covered under disability legislation, so on that basis, absence for this reason is already protected.