To wonder whether menstrual and menopause leave is a good thing?

[prettyvisitors]

name changed as this involves my work, so I don’t want to be identified.

My company are currently looking into their policies, and have been asked by some staff to consider making changes or additions to various policies. We have a very active women’s network at work, which is a great part of working for my company as there’s a space to discuss women’s issues in and out of work, and it creates a lovely atmosphere. Some members of the group have asked SLT to look into offering specific menstrual and menopause leave, which is a new concept although is being offered at some other companies. The idea is you will get some paid leave on top of normal sick leave to accommodate women’s health issues.

Am I being unreasonable to feel uncomfortable with this? When I’ve seen discussions of it prior to this conversation at work I’ve not liked it, as I don’t love the idea that women need “special time off” from work just simply because they’re women. I’m worried it becomes more of a way for men to not hire us, in the same way maternity leave clearly still impacts women in the workplace. Our workplace already has a generous fully paid sick leave allowance and a very flexible working policy with complete working from home if you want to, as and when, so I feel that a lot of menstrual issues can be covered in this way under the standard policy without needing to target women. But then again, I know I really benefit from and enjoy more open discussion of these things at our work, so maybe this is just the next step?

I don’t know, my thoughts aren’t fully formed enough to discuss them in our women’s group yet as some people are very passionate about it, and I don’t want to upset them or make them feel against something when I don’t really know how I feel.

Wondering if anyone else has any better ideas than me on it?

Is specific miscarriage leave necessary? Surely your GP would sign you off because of physical or mental health needs anyway?

Yeah it’s a terrible idea. Basically have what 2/4 days off every month potentially- who on earth is going to want that. I know some women suffer terribly, DM was one. She would have loved the policy and taken the time off. She also didn’t care about having a career.

A review of policy around performance during menopause would also be helpful. Brain fog can be debilitating. It happens to a lot of women. IME being managed out often happens at that point even if no performance issues until then.

I can't believe women would be able to take a couple of paid days off every month. It would make things incredibly difficult in my, mostly women, team.

YANBU OP.
Menstrual/period leave, as I understand it, is simply a 'leave for women - no questions asked'. This is a stupid idea solely because not all women suffer.
For those who DO, it should be treated like a medical condition. IBS, migraines, etc etc there is no need for a special leave for 'women's illnesses'.

The more we shout out loud, painful periods etc are a medical issue the harder it will get for them to keep fobbing women off.

Would this menstrual leave be paid or simply a right to unpaid leave? Whilst some employers might choose to pay, I can't see how it can be legislated for.

Then you're lucky - my periods give me migraine. Before being put on the pill, a 5 day period was a 5 day migraine.

Fast forward a few years and I ended up with a 3 week period. I was taken off the pill and put on the injection where I still had problems.

I'm "lucky" now that I only get migraine on day one.

yeah big no from me. Can I get pancreas disease leave? Sure that causes me more pain and suffering than a period. I just wouldn’t go there if I was a company

I think what PP was trying to express is that painful 'normal life processes' are a medical issue. Giving a blanket leave to everyone implies that it's not, so people just have to live with it. it's not something deserving of treatment that would fix it.

Put it this way... if you had painful poos... would you need leave for those, or realise that something was wrong?

The fact that period issues are so normalised in our society (or most societies for that matter) is indicative of how little the medical industry cares about 'women's diseases'. We are just expected to shut up and put up.

I wonder if they could look at logging, but not counting abscence for female related issues such as severe period pain and debilitating effects of menopause as part of 'normal sickness abscence', much like anti/post natal issues. The same policy would have to be applied to male only issues too. It might be the sort of thing that needs to be supported by a medical letter to avoid anyone taking advantage of it. The problem is the divide it could cause, even between female employees, and of course some might take advantage of it giving all women a bad reputation.

I’m not sure about this policy (sick leave should be able to cover it), but honestly I think some women on this thread with easier periods have no idea how fucking awful periods can be. I have had episodes of fainting and vomiting uncontrollably because of the pain. GP hafound anything “wrong” with me. I’m prone to depression, which makes me worried about taking the pill.

Nicky Campbell had an interesting phone in about this a couple of days ago

I am also on the fence / old school- because we all know there will be some women who take the muck with this opportunity
I was think that someone with a medical
diagno of endometriosis- would be covered under DDA???
What this period leave will result in is people discussing whether Sandras cramps are worse than Doris etc etc

As with all ‘barriers to work’ I would hope that employers had some flexibility ( not that I had that in my working life ) but it may result in some employers not wanting to employ women. There is bound to be a rouge employer who asks at an interview’If your period was a song what would it sound like??’

There has to be a balance between enabling people to work and not letting others take the mick

I am watching this discussion with interest
I genuinely feel sorry for women who are badly afflicted but think most employers/ HR would address this on an individual basis

I have experienced a fair bit of discrimination at work because I'm a woman, and menstrual leave feels like just another reason not to employ women. I think it's a truly terrible idea. Just take sick leave!

I think in severe cases it would count as disability so isn't counted in the usual sickness absence analysis anyway. We have a colleague with PMDD and any absences relating to that are recorded as disability related and don't count towards the triggers.

It would be better to cover all sickness (including menopause/menstrual health issues, under a single policy.

Men can have various sex specific health problems too and no one feels the need to separate this out as if it doesnt count as "real" illness.

@PurpleSteak definitely - for me the issue is I don't technically have a diagnosis yet. I've had a scan and I'm full of endometrial cysts and have kissing ovaries which apparently is 99% likely to be endometriosis
Thankfully my work are fairly understanding as I already have other health issues with adjustments
I just can't physically work when my period is so bad

EXACTLY. Nail on head.
It begs the question, why do 'women's issues' need their own category?
And you don't need a diagnosis, there was a thread on here with an OP about he colleagues' absence due to undiagnosed stomach issues. She was ripped a new one...

Its very draining for some takes alot out of you. My friend was saying the daughter has menstrual leave in madrid. She suffers some months. So she would need it.

It's a terrible idea, because it medicalises normal healthy life. Crucially, it will ruin job prospects for women if all ages - employers (quite rightly) won't want to employ women who may then have a lot of time off work. It will put women back in the home and we'll ge living in the 19th century again. For very extreme cases, current sick leave rules are more than adequate.

I think it's an excellent idea.

I understand the conflict OP.

I’ve never suffered with periods but my DSis has had a horrendous time, flooding at work for years, the whole shebang. She mostly WFH now even pre-padanemic which has hugely improved her situation - so I’m v sympathetic to women who are exceptionally good at their roles but need some extra flexibility now and again.

I agree with a PP that those in flexible/WFH roles are already in a better situation and don’t have to have it labelled so publicly. Of course it’s natural but still not sure I would want this being widely known by male bosses and I’m imagining how this works for women not in office roles.

When I reflect on it I come back to why so many women are suffering - and its lack of scientific research, medical diagnostics and appropriate therapeutics. It’s all woefully inadequate.

I would be inclined to lobby for more flexibility in the work environment for everyone.

The NHS needs to get better at listening to women and diagnosing more efficiently.

The Women's Health Strategy is trying to tackle this on many fronts thankfully.

For me, a special category for women's illnesses is counterproductive to women's rights.

A bit like when Stella Creasy was breastfeeding in Parliament. I was really cross. Employers might see her there and then wonder why we have maternity leave at all. Women need to have time away from work to recover from the birth and bond with their baby. Totally sets women's rights back to when we were expected to carry on digging in the fields!!!

We have won our equality in the work place (apart from pay). Let's not go backwards.

Up until now I have taken workplace 'menopause policies ' to be box ticking and not worth the paper they are written on. . I'll be interested to see if it changes. Although if more men start having a menopause it might!😉🤔🤣

I'm surprised that people think equality legislation means unlimited sick leave with no consequences for people with disabilities. It really doesn't. You might be allowed a bit more sick leave before hitting warnings. It is bloody hard working while disabled.

Also, the DDA was replaced over a decade ago.

I actually think wfh makes being ill worse, people feel pressured to work since they are at home and it’s “easier” or you can just make up the time later. If you aren’t well enough to go to an office, you shouldn’t be working from home.

I do a timesheet and it’s quite hard to fill it if I’m in the bathroom being sick all day, even if I am at home 😂