“We paid in all our lives”: AIBU to think, No you didn’t?

[Perlman]

My grandparents are traditional red wall labour voters. Born during WWII to poor families, they live where they grew up. My grandad worked in a factory and my nan worked as a secretary. Like many of their generation, they lived in and bought their council house. Very caring people until it comes to politics. They are hugely racist and advocate for sinking any refugee boats. This is despite the fact that some of their grandparents were refugees from Russia!

They want the triple lock, free bus passes, heating allowance, increased benefits for older people, et cetera. They think anyone who isn’t old who takes benefits is a scrounger and lazy. They say young people can’t afford to buy a house because they are lazy. They have inherited several, but put down their relatively comfortable position in retirement as to their ‘hard work’.

They justify their opinions and entitlement by saying “we paid in all ours lives, it’s our money”. AIBU to think that, well no, not really. You may have paid in money through taxation but clearly they are net beneficiaries of the state. They both had low paid jobs, bought and sold on their council house for a tidy profit, have thankfully lived a long life but with a myriad of expensive to treat health problems. So no, they haven’t paid for what they’re taking!

Yep I'm in the middle. Gen X / millennial crossover - born 1980. I can see my age group had things a lot easier than youngsters today. I'm sick of older people having tantrums and saying things like "Apart from conveniently dropping dead on the our 66th birthdays?"
Honestly I haven't heard that from young people anywhere! And the entitlement is mainly coming from the older lot who think they should get more and more for free because they "paid in all their lives" except it's not free is it? It's at the expense of your kids and grandkids.
Nobody in their right mind wants to see pensioners starve - even horrible racist ones like the OP's grandparent - but they could at least acknowledge that the only reason they are so well off (the wealthiest generation that has ever lived!!!) Is not because they worked harder, but just because they were lucky enough to be born at the right time. And FWIW in my experience gen z are not workshy entitled avocado eaters! Any more than boomers were stop working when kids are born, never to returners!

No, you just read it that way.

I hope you’re actively trying to fix it. I’ve been trying to influence policy on it for over 30 years now but it’s slow going and huge resistance.

I see you’ve quoted me although quite why that qualifies as a “tantrum” I have no idea.

We know we were lucky by comparison. But genuinely, what do you want from us? In my case I worked from the time I was 18 until I was 64. I paid the market value for my house and every penny of the mortgage. I paid into an occupational pension. I did everything you were supposed to do. What could I have done differently?

It’s exhausting seeing your entire generation continually vilified on the basis of the year of birth for just living life as best you could and playing the cards you were dealt. I don’t want “more and more for free”, why would I? I spent my entire working life preparing for retirement as did everyone else I know. I’d settle for a quiet life free of generational warfare.

There you go. Fill your boots. Added to which, 35 years of NI contributions are needed to qualify for a full pension.

Women had their "stamps" paid for by the government if they claimed child benefit. So a woman could feasibly not work for a couple of decades and still not lose out on the pension.

But do you want to receive free prescriptions without means testing, do you think the triple lock is right and fair? How about blanket travel and cold weather payments? Not because you're hard up. Just because you're aged 60+. And it's being paid for by the younger lot, who won't get any of this, quite likely, and who are constantly told it's easier for them because once upon a time mortgage rates were 15% (on lovely cheap properties) or if they just worked harder, by people who potentially gave up work by the age of 30 to be a SAHP never to return to the workforce. Then when they point any of this out they're told they're "agist" or just want everyone over 66 to drop dead!! No wonder they're bloody annoyed. I just wish they'd actually get out and vote. The world would be a much fairer place if we had compulsory voting.

Sorry - my last post was to @Blossomtoes

They would have been really hard up though until fairly recently. Average wages were way below current levels right up until around 2000 and women earned a lot less than men until the 70s.

The average wage was £12,000 in 1970 in today's money and food costs were loads more than today.

I am in my 70's and have worked since age 15 to retirement aged 65, yes none of us were encouraged to go to uni, (especially if you were female) my sister had to give up her job when she had her first child (She worked for M& S) Generally in the early 1970's women were paid less than their male colleagues, so I really think that many of subsequent generations have no idea what life was like then and how very different life was guided by the circumstances of the times.
Objectively looking back, there have been very tough times for all generations over the years, and each generation is going to have problems and complain that previous generations had it easier etc, etc.
OP you see two people relatively financially comfortable, not everyone of their generation is like this. Scratch the surface and there are plenty of people living on the breadline, or unable to relax in their old age as they are financially supporting or housing adult children.
I read on here what many young working adults are earning, and I wonder how many of them would be able to cope and live on the amount paid on the state pension?

I also find this behaviour frustrating and upsetting. Unfortunately, it's very common.

Wonder if OP is ever coming back to the thread, or are they just watching the bunfight?

No, I don’t want any of those things. I wish they’d get out and vote too. Oh boy, do I wish they would.

No, it’s the way it was written. “I remember being” - you’re comparing it to the 90s and at no point did you try and suggest it was worse now. Must do better.

Obviously, but when you’re outnumbered by other gens and those in power are trying to appeal to the voting masses it’s hard as you know. Doesn’t help when people think (esp on here) they can label anyone under 25 as lazy, not resilient etc. but you can’t even think a bad thought about the older gen without it being labelled ageist. Funny how they don’t see it in reverse.

We do see it in reverse. Did you not read what I and other older posters wrote?

My y be does this also. Doesn’t recognise her privilege and tells me she ‘paid enough in’ and worked hard her whole life. Neither is true because she was a sahm until 40 before going into a low tax bracket job in a hospital…and then retired at 55 due to redundancy and a payout. So she really has no idea at all. Claims she isn’t racist but shared ‘all lives matter’ and BNP drivel all over her social media
I hear you OP, it’s infuriating and I keep my distance

Very probably. The people she talked about are undoubtedly utterly horrible but I'm sure she knew this would turn into a pensioner bashing thread.

Yes I hate it when people are irrational. Especially when it’s self serving.

But few old people can completely change their philosophy of life without some extreme event.

And did I aim it at you?? I said “when people think” as in when certain people think - not when “@Blossomtoes thinks” or “when everyone thinks”. Did you not read what I wrote?

I took “they” to mean my generation. Isn’t that what you meant?

My beloved DM worked until she was 78, latterly as a MH care assistant with the SRN training to deliver drug therapies. She's now 88, and thanks to a shitty divorce and pension settlement, she lives on the lower-rate pension topped up with pension credits to minimum pension. Fortunately, we insisted she buy a small property outright about 30 years ago, and helped her to do so. It simply isn't true that wealthy pensioners are rinsing the state to live in luxury.

It is much easier to be lazy nowadays than it would have even in your grandparents day. They managed without child benefit , tax credits etc . Basically if you didn’t work for it you didn’t have it. I bet they didn’t have 2 cars or ever go abroad. Holidays seem to be a need nowadays and even though who don’t work expect to go away every summer. Your grandparents views on the boats are abhorrent but they’re not entirely wrong with the rest. They sound more conservative than labour leaning.

“They” referred to the “certain people” I was talking about within that whole paragraph. It doesn’t mean everyone in a generation and that was a bit of a defensive leap from you to assume I was referring to ever older person alive since I never stated one generation, just “certain people”.

cba 😂

To which "certain people" are you referring? If you were born in 1956, like me, paying your NI stamp when you weren't working was important because workplace pensions did not become mandatory for every company until 2018. So they are still only 5 years old, and most people over 50 will see a fairly marginal uplift. The NI funded state pension is going to remain the core of 95% of the population's pension planning for decades.

certain people was just referring to the people who come on here and say all of Gen Z are lazy etc but then don’t see that as ageist. But can’t accept any criticism of their own generation without labelling it as such. I clearly wasn’t clear enough in my post, however the defensiveness is annoying me now. I never stated I was referring to one generation nor was I saying a certain age. People. Just certain people. You can go on loads of threads about young people in the office, at work etc and they’re horrible to read for someone my age who has worked and has worked hard since 16. I had a full time job whilst at uni for gods sake, so to hear that everyone my age is lazy and doesn’t care is draining. Again - not referring to anyone in particular just the people who come on here to spout pure nonsense (even though it’s usually the same generation as the kids they’re raising).

Please accept my generation won’t be having the same retirement luxuries as there is now. I genuinely believe I will be lucky to retire. I don’t think they’ll be an NHS. I think state help for those who need it will reduce. When I’m your age it won’t be the same as it is now. Please don’t be patronising.

However, I think the triple lock needs to be scrapped for anyone under 75. As a generation, we were told that we were walking into a fire storm of increasing longevity and more chronic illness. I would prefer the option of choosing to opt out of endless geriatric treatments in favour of a clean planned clinically managed euthanised exit. I think most people who have watched their parents fade out despite intensive, expensive, intrusive care programmes get to a point where being left alone to die quietly is preferable. DMIL94, with a dementia and several chronic conditions was returned to her care home when our (excellent) hospital determined that they had done everything possible. She died five hours later. DMIL hated the limitations her multiple conditions imposed. Had she not had dementia, she would have chosen Dignitas. We talked about it.

I would prefer the option of choosing to opt out of endless geriatric treatments in favour of a clean planned clinically managed euthanised exit.

So would I. I’m really hoping it will be possible sooner rather than later. Failing that it will be a Fentanyl overdose.