“We paid in all our lives”: AIBU to think, No you didn’t?

[Perlman]

My grandparents are traditional red wall labour voters. Born during WWII to poor families, they live where they grew up. My grandad worked in a factory and my nan worked as a secretary. Like many of their generation, they lived in and bought their council house. Very caring people until it comes to politics. They are hugely racist and advocate for sinking any refugee boats. This is despite the fact that some of their grandparents were refugees from Russia!

They want the triple lock, free bus passes, heating allowance, increased benefits for older people, et cetera. They think anyone who isn’t old who takes benefits is a scrounger and lazy. They say young people can’t afford to buy a house because they are lazy. They have inherited several, but put down their relatively comfortable position in retirement as to their ‘hard work’.

They justify their opinions and entitlement by saying “we paid in all ours lives, it’s our money”. AIBU to think that, well no, not really. You may have paid in money through taxation but clearly they are net beneficiaries of the state. They both had low paid jobs, bought and sold on their council house for a tidy profit, have thankfully lived a long life but with a myriad of expensive to treat health problems. So no, they haven’t paid for what they’re taking!

my dd as a 1 year qualified teacher earns £34k. In 6/7 years as a Head of Year or Subject that is likely to be closer to £50k and as a member of SLT another 5/6 years on could easily be £65/£70k

won't be buying a 1.2m house alone though which I think was the posters point.

They sound fucking awful tbh. No idea how widespread this view is, I’ve never heard anyone come out with stuff this extreme in my experience of life thankfully.

My DM didn’t have regular paid work after my DB was born. She came of age in the 1950s. My grandmothers on both sides worked all of their lives. As far as I can see, in generations previous to my DP’s one, only posh women didn’t work while in my DP’s generation,some women who weren’t as posh as those previously also didn’t work.

Nit picking would be over 2%, not 25%. It’s a big enough number as to be very relevant and

As for a ‘small part of their lives’, was it? It would probably be impossible to obtain an average figure for this, but 3 children and 4 years out the workplace until each reaches school age would be 12 years. Could round that down a little if age gaps were smaller, but a decade doesn’t look hugely unlikely.

Of course you benefit from it , other people's children are paying your pension, proping up the economy, they will treat you in hospital because of the knowledge they learned it education and by simply existing when you are sick and care for you at home or in a nursing home. You wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for other peoples children.

What part of reciprocal are you having trouble with? Why on earth have you chosen one of the most sensible and balanced posts on the thread to take issue with? Of course she’d be alive if it wasn’t for other people’s children, that might not be the case in the future but not now.

AppleDumplingWithCustard · Today 12:41

I have been in receipt of a state pension for five years. Before this I worked for forty-seven years with no breaks in employment, paying tax and NI for all this time. These deductions from my salary were helping to pay for other people’s children’s healthcare and education. I was also helping towards the maternity care of women and also child benefit. As a child free woman I didn’t benefit from any of this. However, this is how society works. We contribute towards the care of others and in the main it’s reciprocal. Just keep this in mind while you insinuate that pensioners are scrounging off you.

Actually this is complete bollocks. If you look at it that actually your taxes are paying for the birth costs, and schooling of those children rather than seeing it as a benefit for the mother for some weird reason, you'll see that you DID receive exactly the same benefits yourself. Assuming you were born in a medical setting and received schooling. No?

My parents (now in their 70s) both worked since the age of 15. Obviously mum took a break from work to give birth to my sibling and I but it wasn’t a long break. Never been on benefits (except child benefit). Never lived in council housing. Middle income earners. Paid tax / NI for 50 plus years. Both paid into a private pension pot too. No long term health issues, no major healthcare required except one parent now undergoing treatment for cancer. They absolutely deserve their pensions, retired life perks and access to healthcare and I despise anyone that begrudges them of this.

Well, yes, pretty much exactly my point (ffs)

They actually sound quite horrible and I hate that age and generation is considered a pass for awfulness. I , along with my 70 mother have always had compassion and will have until we die - no matter what has happened to us.

In some jobs, women had to resign if they got married. Up to the late 50's or early 60's. These women were the mothers of today's Boomers.

Yes, I wrote what I meant to write: if they got married. Nothing to do with children or anything like that.

A while back someone in a local history society posted on FB, I think, an advert for the job of postmistress at the post office, dating from the 1920's I think.

The job description stipulated that when a suitable man had been found, she would have no choice and he would take her job.

Many other women resigned on marriage because it was the norm, presumably also dependant on finances, but at least in the middle classes. Such women could devote time to decorating and furnishing their home. If they did continue working, they would resign when they got pregnant, I imagine?

As the DC grew, and mothers like mine had more spare time, they did voluntary work. DM delivered Meals-on-Wheels each week as a volunteer for the WRVS.

My DM wanted to work again, and did do so eventually. Initially my DF felt it would somehow mean he could not support his own family financially, but did accept the idea eventually.

Disclosure: Babyboomer 1952 and proud and grateful that I am

What a silly dramatic little response!

They had no choice but to resign when pregnant as there was no maternity provision, you had to leave. If you were able to get childcare you could always apply for another job, however the odds were against you as it was quite normal, as a woman of child bearing years to be asked your plans for having children at interviews as well !

Well if a way they are right they paid taxes for 35yrs or whatever the number of yrs u need to qualify for state pension so they are entitled to it and if you don't then you shouldn't be entitled to it...and i refer to those who refuse to work when they can work, not those who due to health etc cannot work.

@Livinginanotherworld I was asked that as late as 1991! I had just got married.

It's tricky isn't it. Whilst I appreciate that a teacher's salary won't run to a million plus house, teachers nowadays have different circumstances. Many will inherit from grandparents as money passes down the generations in a way that didn't happen 50 years ago. DD at present could borrow about £100k, once her bf is qualified (in a profession) probably £280k combined. They could put down about £30k between them from their own savings. That would buy them a little flat in the outer reaches of SW/SE London. They could therefore make a start together if they had no other means. Not bad at 25/27.

Wind 'em up and watch 'em go.

Lol you haven't been outside your bubble much have you! 😂

It's tricky isn't it. Whilst I appreciate that a teacher's salary won't run to a million plus house, teachers nowadays have different circumstances. Many will inherit from grandparents as money passes down the generations in a way that didn't happen 50 years ago

Loads of people don't inherit & it's silly that people need to inherit now in order to get on the ladder, property wasn't so expensive vs incomes 50 yrs ago.

Indeed 😖. I'm peri menopausal, so I should probably not read anymore threads like this.

As a pensioner, I still pay tax. I'm exempt from Nat Ins now, but not tax. I'm taxed at the same rate as everyone else.

But, every group pays towards another. I paid in towards my parent's pensions, at the time, and now the taxes I still pay go towards children's health, education and the welfare bill.

Thats how it works. We all pay towards one another if we pay tax/Nat Ins.

You worded it as if it was the same in the 90s, let’s be honest. It’s not really comparable though is it and arguably the social contract as you call it for my generation really doesn’t seem fair as it’s looking unlikely all the things in place (NHS, state pension) will be with us when we’re older / old enough to benefit from them. So no, I would say the social contract is starting to decay.

I’m Gen Z for context. Possibly on the cusp between millennial and gen Z

But the vast majority of pensioners have worked all their lives, paid and are paying all the taxes asked of them. Just like OP’s grandparents. Just what do you actually want of us? Apart from conveniently dropping dead on the our 66th birthdays?

Recognising the privileges you've had which today's young people don't, would be a start. Realising that to keep giving you all the things you think you are entitled to, the rest of us are working longer, paying more and are getting less. I would disagree that it is a vast majority who have paid tax as women were far less likely to be working 50 years ago. Sure they were raising children and that's an important role, but not only would there have been a tax advantage for married couples back in the day, but it is a fallacy to say they were paying tax. Indeed, Martin Lewis has recently been banging the drum for women saying they needed to check they claim all the years of NI they missed being out of the workforce.

I will reiterate, I think it is important to look after pensioners whether they "paid in" or not, but it is also important to recognise who that is at the expense of, and to stop calling the younger generations entitled.

How rude.
I can assure you we have plenty of older people in our local Labour Party and none of them are racist or benefit claimant bashers.