“We paid in all our lives”: AIBU to think, No you didn’t?

[Perlman]

My grandparents are traditional red wall labour voters. Born during WWII to poor families, they live where they grew up. My grandad worked in a factory and my nan worked as a secretary. Like many of their generation, they lived in and bought their council house. Very caring people until it comes to politics. They are hugely racist and advocate for sinking any refugee boats. This is despite the fact that some of their grandparents were refugees from Russia!

They want the triple lock, free bus passes, heating allowance, increased benefits for older people, et cetera. They think anyone who isn’t old who takes benefits is a scrounger and lazy. They say young people can’t afford to buy a house because they are lazy. They have inherited several, but put down their relatively comfortable position in retirement as to their ‘hard work’.

They justify their opinions and entitlement by saying “we paid in all ours lives, it’s our money”. AIBU to think that, well no, not really. You may have paid in money through taxation but clearly they are net beneficiaries of the state. They both had low paid jobs, bought and sold on their council house for a tidy profit, have thankfully lived a long life but with a myriad of expensive to treat health problems. So no, they haven’t paid for what they’re taking!

Lol, what war? They’d have to be near enough 100 to have fought. It ended 78 years ago. Nothing but respect for the greatest generation, but find it irritating how anyone less than 80 can take any kind of credit or use the war as Ammo to sling at problems faced in the modern day.

Op, they HAVE paid in all their lives. And now they get to retire and be in receipt of a pension. And the same will happen to you.

Hahahahahahaha. As if. I'd bet £100 that there'll be no pension when I finally get to retire in my mid-70s.

OP, my parents are the same. My dad worked just under 30 years before retiring, my mum just over 12. The property market made them extremely wealthy and they retired at 55. Their own parents all lived to mid-80s so chances are they'll be receiving SP for almost as long as my dad worked and twice as long as my mum.

They retired to a community where they have friends who think the same and they spend their time saying they've paid in all their lives whilst moaning about stupid selfish young people who don't know how to budget or work hard like they did. And yes, they're racist to boot. We don't speak anymore. Which is better for my blood pressure, frankly.

YANBU.

Some parents might behave this way, but as many do not. My DM88 worked until she was 78 as a carer in mental health, latterly PT, and is on the lowest rate of SP, plus pension credit and about £50 per month from the NHS scheme. She hasn't been in hospital since a mid-40s hysterectomy and pays for what she needs.

This is why I find it odd that Vera Lynn tributes etc are still a thing.

The average person in a residential home now would have grown up with Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Rolling Stones, Dusty Springfield. My dad was in sheltered accommodation in his last years and was still blasting The Who!

No, it won't. Dying doesn't magically erase a racist past.

Having witnessed the hell that was my mother's life as she slipped into dementia and lost the ability to walk, I couldn't agree more.

Alternatively I want the resources that currently go into forcing people to go on living in pain and fear to be put instead into a concerted effort at finding effective treatments for dementia, and indeed for stopping the joints seizing up and all the other ills of old age.

Interesting comment @JanieEyre . Is racism the very worst crime/sin that can be committed?

It’s not something you’d want to be remembered for, is it?

@EffortlessDesmond can you really not see that your ”generalisations” are just ageist comments based on the load of wasters you know and raised?

Ugh my dad is just the same. The way he goes on you'd think he'd worked down the pit for 25 hours a day for 40 years and was surviving on a diet of dry bread.
He went to Radley, came from a wealthy family, pays DDs school fees to get rid of some of his income and retired at 55. He spends their winter fuel allowance on Cook puddings. They bought their house in 77, so you can imagine how much it has risen in value.
todays topic was lazy, workshy teachers who have gold plated pensions taking early retirement doing all the poor old pensioners out of their money. You can't even argue with his because he's so entrenched in his views.

Yeah, I doubt they had iphones, games consoles, and endless hot showers etc. They likely lived a hard life before they lived a good life.

And going back a few decades you had to put up and shut up. No running to HR if your boss shouted at you!

Good that you are taking the moral high ground and refusing his money then.

I fail to see how that's relevant

Because you’re sneering at him but you won’t be sneering at his money when you inherit it, will you?

It is frustrating OP. My late dad was a very clever and pragmatic man and I think got it. My mum less so. The reality is that there is a generation who benefited hugely from the welfare state because it functioned very differently, many have benefitted from huge house price increases and being able to buy on one income. Yes, there were sacrifices made but for our parents, mortgages were achievable on 2-3 times one income and saving for a deposit was possible. Child care costs at the same rate as a mortgage or higher was not a thing.

Many people were able to buy council homes, now even someone at band A will have a wait of 3-5 years to get one if they are lucky. The cost of renting is so huge, saving at the rate needed for a housing deposit is out of reach for many. Whilst not applicable to everyone, lots of people had a decent work place pension. Late DH's father was a postie and his death in service paid for his younger siblings to go to university and as a consequence they have done amazingly well in life. Their mother, an amazing woman, was a refugee and herself worked very hard and was a just a joyous force for good. Compare that to the current narrative.

As for pensions.....there are lots of people out there retired on a pension that our children could only dream of. Not every one, and there remains a lot of poverty amongst more vulnerable older people, and this group have probably been disadvantaged throughout their lives and largely overlooked.

There is a certain generation who have the best of the welfare state, really benefitted from secure jobs and pensions and, if they got on the housing ladder, have done pretty well. Hopefully the majority get that and really it is just luck. The others will probably never shift. Stop buying coffee and netflix people!

I just find it surprising that they are racist, anti immigration etc. and vote Labour. Those things don't go together in my mind!

It would be good if younger people who do realise this started doing something about it.

The State is a parasite which grows continually. Young people are fewer and can’t afford to support it.

You don’t recall anti semitism rows?

The left views people as groups. Of course they are the ones who would close ranks against different groups.

Those who want a small State view people as individuals and so it’s meaningless for them to attack groups.

Those who want a small state don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. Thatcher’s words continue to resonate with some people.

A lot of the left are racist and discriminate on sexual orientation and gender - e.g. hating straight white males seems to be common. __

Do you have some evidence for this or is it just ignorant rhetoric?

Yes, I know.

He doesn't sound very pleasant. Yet you're happy to have him pay your daughter's school fees?

The OPs grandparents bought their council house at a reduced rate after paying a subsided rent. That's a massive handout they had and they are partly responsible for the decline of social housing.
They are in no position to gloat.

You've not heard the phrase 'male, pale, and stale'?

I'm not a crown defender of men by any stretch but it's always occurred to me that you couldn't say 'black and wack' as an insult like you can 'male, pale, and stale.'

And 'gammon'. Another insult based on skin colour which I've seen on here a lot.

I don't really like Tories and strong conservatives but I also hate this ennobling of the left as being morally superior when they make up the vast majority of shouty purple haired bigots who always seem to have an arrogant/patronising sense of righteousness/self importance

Usually you get some excuse about privilege and 'punching up' but try and talk about the privilege in white feminism and suddenly those same rules don't apply!