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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who is being unreasonable, me or my manager?

213 replies

Kowaii · 08/08/2023 21:44

My line manager absolutely loves our job. Which is fair enough.
She made a weird comment on Saturday about the person who worked there before me didn’t “care” about the job, just came in at 9 and left at 5 and that was that. I thought this was odd as it’s literally a 9-5 job.
On Monday morning I got to work and had a load of emails from her that has been sent the previous night. I thought maybe the time was just wrong in the emails.
Today she’s called a meeting with me asking why I didn’t respond to the emails sooner. I said I didn’t see them until I got to work.
She questioned why I want signed in to my work stuff on my personal phone as I then would’ve seen the email was urgent and responded.
Turns out she expects me to basically be “at work” pretty much 24/7. I’ve said I absolutely will not be looking at emails on my time off and directing my work number to my personal number (wtf!).

She seemed genuinely shocked by this. I said I’m paid 9-5 so I will be working 9-5 and no, I don’t think about work when I leave the office. She seems to have made her life about this job.

Aibu to think this is crazy and I’m not being a twat by not having any of my work on my personal phone? I don’t see what I could do from home anyway without my work computer in front of me!

OP posts:
GuinnessBird · 09/08/2023 16:45

The manager sounds like a bootlicker, the OP on the other hand has good boundaries.

MarshaArt · 09/08/2023 17:07

Asiatoyork · 09/08/2023 02:47

It’s bad management to email over the weekend or late at night - emails should be scheduled for the next working day (there’s a button for this.)

This practice really confuses me, but I think it’s because I never assumed in my working life that if someone sends an e-Mail out of hours that I would be expected to pick it up, let alone respond. I might add a note to my e-Mail sig or something as I didn’t realise people feel pressure to respond out of hours!

Agree. It might suit me to receive their email earlier depending on when I wanted to work. Flexibility means different things to different people. If people feel they need to reply then the culture is the issue, not the timing of an email.

Canisaysomething · 09/08/2023 17:10

It totally depends on whether this is a career job where you're hoping to work your way up or whether it's a job with limited earning potential. If you were a junior lawyer on 35k and ran out of the door at 5pm every day you wouldn't last long.

theemmadilemma · 09/08/2023 17:12

AnSolas · 09/08/2023 15:50

I am aware of the cost saving decisions
(from the tec the network fees and asset management etc )

I am old enough to have went through the processes where companies moved from strong inhouse security systems to weak security on non-company assets.
Proposed solutions included Ee's giving IT staff free access to all the data personal phones and laptops with permission to brick the phone/laptop when the employee left. A compromise was reached and the companies spent the money to buy secure tec and/or web based solutions which managed access etc. on personal tec

Lots of people on MN use third party apps for work. Ones like whatapp still dont allow 2 accounts off the 1 number so what an employee agreed to in a data policy becomes important.

Standard policy these days is you use your own device
To provide work tools needed to carry out a role
And if system security is poor Ee obtains data in the course of employment not direct action in breach of law

Only very Senior people have a work phone, and that is due to the requirements on them.
To provide work tools needed to carry out a role

The only difference should be senior people are paid extra out of hours

However its a business risk when the senior people bring their business number to a new organisation because their phone log is IP and future calls inwards are to the new organisation

In the OP's case she is being asked to provide a work tool and to provide free hours work and be on call 24/7

Show quote history

I'm old hat too. And I'm not sure what you're arguing... you asked what happened to data stored on the phone, I gave some info because you seemed to have no comprehension. Actually seems like you do. :shrug:

I told the OP she was correct and did the right thing.

Blogdog · 09/08/2023 17:15

Having work applications and email on personal phones should be at the option of the employee. If your job requires you to have these then they need to provide an appropriate device.

Having suffered a pretty severe burnout from a professional role due to constant overwork and lack of resourcing I now refuse to have anything work related on a personal device. It’s all fair and well saying you don’t have to read work communications but when they are mixed with personal emails and notifications are flashing up constantly during non-work hours it is very difficult to switch off. Now I carry two phones during the week but the work one goes into a drawer once I get home and all weekend. I value my own mental health too much to allow that crossover.

FrenchandSaunders · 09/08/2023 17:16

I work with someone like this but she lives alone and is a bit lonely I think so has made her job her life. Fine for her to crack on with that, but I'm not doing it.

FloofCloud · 09/08/2023 17:17

Check what your contract says. Personally I don't expect any of my team to read outside of office hours unless prearranged due to business needs, which is pretty rare.

LizzieLoO37 · 09/08/2023 17:24

She is making it a toxic workplace by her bad time management. Don't do work stuff outside of your contracted hours unless you have a written agreement you will receive extra pay or benefits. Don't let this force you into working more hours for free. Who gets to burnout the fastest is a competition nobody wins.

RoadSignFool · 09/08/2023 17:37

Tabitha2721 · 09/08/2023 13:57

yanbu. You need to keep work and personal separate and I really don’t agree with having work stuff on private phones. Not only is it an information security nightmare, but it blends the two and makes a work life balance impossible! She can’t project that unrealistic expectation on you if you’re contracted 9-5. I would be bringing this up with higher ups so it doesn’t cause future issues to be honest.

It’s really NOT an information security nightmare. It’s very, very common.

And when I am not in work and do not feel like looking at work emails, I just don’t open the work email app. It doesn’t send me notifications. It’s no more intrusive than having the Mumsnet Talk app on my phone!

Joevanswell · 09/08/2023 17:38

Make a stand as others say, my dh worked for a big four accountancy firm and was not allowed to leave when my baby dd was admitted to hospital ( very very poorly and kept in best part of a week)and nearly missed my planned cs as he had to attend a conference call despite weeks of notice and being on paternity leave. He started job hunting the next day, his old boss has been promoted multiple times as this work culture was encouraged and no he wasn’t on mega money

AnSolas · 09/08/2023 17:38

theemmadilemma · 09/08/2023 17:12

I'm old hat too. And I'm not sure what you're arguing... you asked what happened to data stored on the phone, I gave some info because you seemed to have no comprehension. Actually seems like you do. :shrug:

I told the OP she was correct and did the right thing.

Show quote history

Yep :)

RoadSignFool · 09/08/2023 17:41

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 09/08/2023 14:59

Quite clearly not talking about international emails are they.

Show quote history

But what does the impact of an email landing in your inbox differ depending on where the sender is located?

IamnotSethRogan · 09/08/2023 17:45

Well it depends what field you work in but we're having a security revamp at work and they said we're not to even have our emails on our work phones so I think they'd blow a fuse if they were on our personal phones.

Allwelcone · 09/08/2023 17:47

By "care" yiur boss just means they're emotionally involved. Sad really.

Howmuchfurther · 09/08/2023 17:50

Kowaii · 08/08/2023 21:44

My line manager absolutely loves our job. Which is fair enough.
She made a weird comment on Saturday about the person who worked there before me didn’t “care” about the job, just came in at 9 and left at 5 and that was that. I thought this was odd as it’s literally a 9-5 job.
On Monday morning I got to work and had a load of emails from her that has been sent the previous night. I thought maybe the time was just wrong in the emails.
Today she’s called a meeting with me asking why I didn’t respond to the emails sooner. I said I didn’t see them until I got to work.
She questioned why I want signed in to my work stuff on my personal phone as I then would’ve seen the email was urgent and responded.
Turns out she expects me to basically be “at work” pretty much 24/7. I’ve said I absolutely will not be looking at emails on my time off and directing my work number to my personal number (wtf!).

She seemed genuinely shocked by this. I said I’m paid 9-5 so I will be working 9-5 and no, I don’t think about work when I leave the office. She seems to have made her life about this job.

Aibu to think this is crazy and I’m not being a twat by not having any of my work on my personal phone? I don’t see what I could do from home anyway without my work computer in front of me!

In my experience this is normal OP.

Whether it’s acceptable depends on how much you are paid and what career structure there is.

If you are new to the industry, your manager should have been more explicit in the interview.

I love the way you are dealing with it. You may start a trend in your work place. I have seen a few brave and valuable young people doing this and it’s great.

Probably you need a call with your manager about how to get the projects in on time without working excess hours.

AlanJohnsonsBeamer · 09/08/2023 18:15

I lived like this for a long time before I became pregnant. It gave me a chance to step back and start looking after myself. I was definitely burnt out and now looking into a complete career change.

YANBU 100%. Good for you!

Youdoyoubabe · 09/08/2023 18:32

Depends if you want to get promoted or not and the culture where you work. We are ‘always on’ but small business and needs must.

calmcoco · 09/08/2023 18:50

Youdoyoubabe · 09/08/2023 18:32

Depends if you want to get promoted or not and the culture where you work. We are ‘always on’ but small business and needs must.

Plenty of employees wouldn't put up with it for long though, plenty of jobs don't ask for this from their employees.

Original poster
Kowaii · 09/08/2023 19:06

35k is peanuts!

wow that’s a bit of an unnecessary comment.

Thanks all. I’m entering a new career after being a midwife for 5 years (so I know all about working outside of my hours and going above and beyond!)

I have absolutely no intention of doing anything other than my 9-5 hours and I’ve made that very clear that after my healthcare background I basically just want to have a job I don’t have to think about. I’m good at my new role, and I’m doing very well at it and that’s enough for me.

OP posts:
Sage71 · 09/08/2023 19:10

I would ask HR what the rate of pay is for overtime, time and a half, double time etc When they want to know why tell them she expects you to do overtime which may be ok as long as you agree it in advance. Should lead to an interesting conversation between them and her.

Ozziedream · 09/08/2023 19:45

to get that kind of responsiveness they would need to be paying you c. £100k +. I used to work all the hours and had to respond to emails over the weekend but I was paid well and had a clear career progression (which was even more well paid). Your pay in no way suggests that you should be working anything outside 9-5 (and I don’t mean that rudely - I see you didn’t like a pp mentioning your pay - but it’s factual and really relevant here).

daffodilandtulip · 09/08/2023 19:48

I had this in the NHS. I then took the exact same job in another trust and replied to an email that had been sent in office hours, late at night ... and got told off for working in my own time 🤣

Bunnycat101 · 09/08/2023 19:49

@Joevanswell that is just cruel. I’ve been in jobs where there was a long hours culture, lots of reactive work but there is not one boss that I’ve had that would have said no to a request to leave for a poorly baby- most wouldn’t expect to have been asked in that situation.

Zanatdy · 09/08/2023 19:52

Definitely not. I’m paid 60k a year and apart from times of crisis I don’t log on outside of my work hours. Pay me double and I’ll consider it. Other people my grade do probably check more than I do, but I am always willing to work extra and more than others when we have a crisis so I’m not prepared to be checking my emails all the time otherwise. She’s unbelievable asking you to, or even telling you that you should! I always tell my staff off for emailing beyond standard hours, check they are ok and don’t have too much on etc.