Who is being unreasonable, me or my manager?

[Kowaii]

My line manager absolutely loves our job. Which is fair enough.
She made a weird comment on Saturday about the person who worked there before me didn’t “care” about the job, just came in at 9 and left at 5 and that was that. I thought this was odd as it’s literally a 9-5 job.
On Monday morning I got to work and had a load of emails from her that has been sent the previous night. I thought maybe the time was just wrong in the emails.
Today she’s called a meeting with me asking why I didn’t respond to the emails sooner. I said I didn’t see them until I got to work.
She questioned why I want signed in to my work stuff on my personal phone as I then would’ve seen the email was urgent and responded.
Turns out she expects me to basically be “at work” pretty much 24/7. I’ve said I absolutely will not be looking at emails on my time off and directing my work number to my personal number (wtf!).

She seemed genuinely shocked by this. I said I’m paid 9-5 so I will be working 9-5 and no, I don’t think about work when I leave the office. She seems to have made her life about this job.

Aibu to think this is crazy and I’m not being a twat by not having any of my work on my personal phone? I don’t see what I could do from home anyway without my work computer in front of me!

Some people don’t have healthy boundaries between their work and personal life

I worked with a woman like this, in before everyone, last one to leave, weekends etc (usual hours 8.30-4.30 non urgent industry) We took it to our main boss along the lines of, Is she safe here on her own as he wasn't aware she was in over weekends and does her work load need to be spread out as she's so over worked (control freak)

Also worked for another who sent emails at stupid o'clock and expected praise for it.

In a 9-5 work life, general office, not medical etc YANBU to switch off outside of that and work your set hours.

I'm currently work in a 'holiday' environment my hours are 9-5, occasionally I get an out of hours call on a phone provided by the company, that requires me to go to the office or on site and i work the weekends but I get paid overtime for this.
However in a world where everyone can get everything near on straight away, some people are bemused as to why I havent replied to their email/voicemail they sent at 9pm on a Sunday night!

I run a business and I dont even work 24/7- thats not healthy for anyone, she's going to become ill without any down time.

Sometimes I do work late (eg until 7pm ish) and send emails (mainly because I have a lot of tasks and dont want to forget something so would rather tick it off then and there) but I do NOT expect anyone to reply to me until after 9am the next morning because thats just ludicrous if you arent actually on call.

It really depends what industry you work in. I'm not saying it's right that you should be on call 24/7 but when I worked in a city law firm it was expected to be contactable at all times outside of working hours and employees were expected to answer work emails even whilst on holiday, despite that not being made explicit in your contract.

Tell your manager that you do care about your job and that during work hours you give your full attention and commitment. However you also believe in the importance of a work life balance in enabling you to refresh and rest so you stay healthy and can perform well. After 5 and before 9 is your personal time to do this, unless you have misunderstood your terms and conditions in some way.
Tell her that you trust she has no issues with your performance, but if so it would be helpful to hear these at your supervision.
Do not let her label you as less than committed or somehow underperforming due to her subjective and unfair ideas of what commitment looks like. If she intends to suggest you are below expectations she needs to evidence it via your performance.

@RoadSignFool Int! NCSC has UK accreditation standarda for security compliance. Managed device management (mdm) is a requirement for ALL devices that access business or personal data, BYOD uses containers for business apps.

An example, if your personal device is running unsupported software, such as lower levels of IOS & Android this risks access to business/personal data. The guidance has tighten up considerably over the last 2 years and any company that requires cyber insurance has to have these procedures in place.

What industry? What is your role/responsibility and what does your JD state?
I work in healthcare and should work 9-5pm but often will "work" outside of these hours. I do not expect people to respond unless they are making up hours, additional/OT etc. Some will respond on a weekend, for example. Especially with planning for strikes and I will be honest I appreciate this more than they would ever know. Yes you have the right to refuse as work life balance is important but I think its dependent on the individuals moral compass and the industry you work in, for me I always think of the patient.

Standard policy these days is you use your own device. Only very Senior people have a work phone, and that is due to the requirements on them.

Logistically, there is more to do in getting a physical device back from an employee. In either case, one the domain access is removed, they will no longer be able to access email.

In terms of documents/data, the risks are no different that an employee downloading to a USB in the office... law and other factors cover this risk.

I've had that sort of ''manager'', I'll only work the set amount of times that's given me and if they're genuinely short staffed I'll happily cover someone who is off but if they're sending me texts or emails out of my set time then I won't reply.

I've had messages sent to me at 11:30 pm+ and I'm expected to answer there and then! They then get all pouty when I won't or can't!

Years ago I was in hospital for a month with an extremely painful condition and skin grafts, when I was at home recovering they rang me multiple times a a day demanding I come in. I answered them once, reminding them I'm in agony and have just been in the hospital, then after that I refused to answer any more of their calls.

When I managed to return to work they were really snotty because I was unable to skivvy for them while in the hospital and recovering at home so I handed my keys in and walked out, never to go back.

I think it depends on the industry and working pattern tbh. I am a teacher and thus paid similar to the OP, and have to send/answer emails at all hours of the day and night. We obviously can’t do paperwork/admin between 8.30 and 3.30, and we’re prepping/marking/dealing with other stuff before and after that. Only yesterday my headteacher and I were on the phone sorting out a safeguarding alert we’d received from the police about a child in my class.

I would assume careers like doctors, nurses, firefighters are similar in that they can’t do all the bureaucratic tasks they need to do while actually working?

However, this does not sound like your situation OP, so I’d get an email confirmation from your manager of what is expected and go from there.

For those who are expected to be contactable out of hours (and are in a role where that is expected amd compensated), how does that work if, I dunno, you want to go out and get pissed of an evening, or for a day out with your family, or somewhere where you're basically not contactable for a significant chunk of time?

I've had one horrible boss who was furious she couldn't contact me on a Saturday once (I was on a remote beach with no reception) but i didnt care as it wasnt actually reasonable or expected at my level, other than by her. But if outside hours contact is always expected, how do you actually have a life?! DH does work out of hours a lot and a bit on hols, but noone expects him to be contactable all the time.

Standard where you work, perhaps. I know exactly no one who wasn’t issued a company phone. But also know many who are allowed to install Outlook on personal devices or access over a web client.

Also, USB is disabled in many companies now.

The space is constantly evolving. No particular policies and practices are universal.

Oh and so many companies not taking back devices now. A friend works for the State we live in, and has been allowed to keep every old phone when they upgrade.

It really depends on what your role is and to an extent what you are paid.

Well, it depends entirely on the job, but on your salary I wouldn't expect that level of responsibility, no. Most jobs don't require that level of commitment, but there are some that do.

How urgent was the email she sent you on Sunday night? Was it a work emergency?

yanbu. You need to keep work and personal separate and I really don’t agree with having work stuff on private phones. Not only is it an information security nightmare, but it blends the two and makes a work life balance impossible! She can’t project that unrealistic expectation on you if you’re contracted 9-5. I would be bringing this up with higher ups so it doesn’t cause future issues to be honest.

Which part is a problem?

It's always the managers expecting the same from their staff who are probably on considerably less money.

You often hear how the 'big boss' on 100k wants everyone running around like blue arsed flies, doing extra hours and answering emails at 10pm. They always seem confused how their employees, on 30k ,funnily don't have the same level of commitment as them.

My ex boss was the same. He was an egotistical, misogynistic, megalomaniac. He owned the company, sat up till 2am emailing, woke up at 6am expecting a response. Best days work I ever did was telling him to shove it!

Unless it's 6 figures I wouldn't be dragged into that! For 35k that's bonkers! Of course you work 9-5 otherwise you are heading for burnout and working for free.

I work in a management position and I'm lucky to be able to work really flexibly. I do check my emails out of my work time but that's my choice as it enables me to be flexible around my kids. I think it's pretty awful for her to expect you to do the same - and would be inclined to take this to her manager if you can, otherwise perhaps time to look elsewhere. If this is the culture of the place it sounds very toxic.

I'd tell her to email me in work hours only and I certainly won't be responding after 5pm or before 9am.

Youre paid 35,000 so you act your wage, ie you work 9-5. If something needs finishing until 5:20 every now and then so be it.

if you were paid £135,000 the expectation would be a lot higher understandably.

Some people send, and respond, to emails outside of normal working hours - that is their choice and the way they work. You do not have to respond if it doesn’t suit your schedule.

I work in an industry where sometimes it is necessary to do planned or unplanned work out of hours. However, if you are on call, you will be paid to be contactable by phone and able to jump online if needed. If you get a message or call when not on call responding is on a 'best efforts' basis and you can charge for any OOH work done.