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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Email sent by colleagues addressed to 'Gents'

232 replies

funkymonkey55 · 07/08/2023 13:18

AIBU to be annoyed by a male colleague starting an email chain to other male colleagues where he addresses them as "Gents" and then he loops me in a few days later - when the actions around the original email topic (gathering information together) need to be picked up (by me of course!)?

It annoys me because I feel 1) I should have been cc'd in the first instance, 2) Isn't starting an email chain where you know females will have to be cc'd in / included with the phrase Gents a little rude?

I don't know if I am being a bit overly sensitive.

OP posts:
itsmylife7 · 08/08/2023 00:16

Don't start over thinking this OP.

It starts small and grows....stand up for yourself and don't let the Men undermine you.

Pinkitydrinkity · 08/08/2023 00:19

This would annoy me too OP, there’s just no reason for it! I would bet he refers to your secretaries as “the girls” as well.

Mmhmmn · 08/08/2023 00:41

AlisonDonut · 07/08/2023 13:34

I had a 'mamanger' [in the loosest sense of the word as he was fucking useless] a few years ago who would call all the white men 'Mr [surname] and all the non white men [aka Asian guys and all the women] their first name.

Nobody seemed to be bothered until I pointed it out.

Holy shit. That is Dickensian. What an absolute horror he sounds.

Wordled · 08/08/2023 00:41

He didn't need to mention the club, and maybe didn't mean to, but the club is there, in his head, even if he doesn't think about it. He'll huff 'they're all guys, it's just factual' no doubt.
Yeah, right.

moneyplantnation · 08/08/2023 00:43

@funkymonkey55 Having read your OP and your replies.

1st you were not included in the original email, it was all men. So I see no reason why they cannot use the word guys. Your issue is that you were only CC`d in later to some thing you think you should have had from the start.

2nd you have already stated yourself with your previous boss they tended to back you up and you were more than happy to pull any one up and did it regularly. You also state that that you are already logging and keeping records of your work colleagues.

So reading between the lines, they possibly are excluding you now a new boss is in the company who will not back you up, makes me wonder if you need to look at your own attitude to all your co workers. After all if you were so involved and cared about one of the "Guys" would have forward you the email any way and informed the others you had been missed off. They did not so it does make you wonder.

MN is great for giving a one sided view of a situation with all the facts about the poster.

justanotheranony · 08/08/2023 00:45

Woke

MissTrip82 · 08/08/2023 00:46

I must live in a parallel universe to some because starting an email with gents (even if it’s addressed to all men) at work has never been acceptable or ‘the done thing’ the entire 20+ years I’ve been working, across multiple countries.

I did laugh at the PP who ‘wouldn’t be offended’ and would view a female colleague who complained ‘differently’ hahahaha of course you would that literally how internalised misogyny works.

justanotheranony · 08/08/2023 00:48

MissTrip82 · 08/08/2023 00:46

I must live in a parallel universe to some because starting an email with gents (even if it’s addressed to all men) at work has never been acceptable or ‘the done thing’ the entire 20+ years I’ve been working, across multiple countries.

I did laugh at the PP who ‘wouldn’t be offended’ and would view a female colleague who complained ‘differently’ hahahaha of course you would that literally how internalised misogyny works.

Perhaps the company is more interested in earning money than pandering to woke employees.

ikno · 08/08/2023 00:53

I think as a one-off, assume it wasn’t malicious and just incompetence.

Raise it and state he should have informed you of this task from the beginning to prevent things from escalating, and not to do it again as now you have to balance it with conflicts. I’d purposely do a half arsed job due to “time constraints” and let him take any flak. For now, it’s hard to raise an issue with the usage of “gents” as the larger issue is him leaving you out of the email, which could be indicative of a wider cultural issue but before you can address it, you need things in writing.

Wordled · 08/08/2023 01:04

I've only ever seen an email start with 'Gents' once. It was sent to the 'family email' back in the dark ages when we had just one. It was from an old school friend of DH's who was trying to organise a lads' night out. This guy obviously didn't realise I was going to read it. The highlight of the evening was going to be a bar where they could check out the 'pusssaay'. He was not joking. I'd met him, his wife and the others at a dinner a few days before. All 50+, kids, married, lovely wives. I thought he was a bit of a tosser at the dinner but this was a real eye opener.

CasperGutman · 08/08/2023 07:06

ilovemydogmore · 07/08/2023 15:45

Gents, ladies, guys... none of these words are appropriate in the modern workplace. Same for 'manning' as in running, e.g. 'are you manning the exhibition stand'. It's gendered language and as small as it seems, it makes it more difficult for people other than men to be seen as equals to men.

Times change, we evolve language as we learn more and we should be open to doing so. Workplaces should feel inclusive, and we know gender is a really important characteristic to protect because of the stark pay gap.

Responses that suggest otherwise in this thread are from people that don't work in a corporate environment, people that worked a long time ago or people that work in a very outdated company with outdated leadership. Or you're just outdated yourself.

As a thought experiment, try flipping the genders here. Objecting to gendered language per se on principle and referring to women as "people other than men" would get you a real flaming on certain other MN threads! Is gender a real thing people should be aware of, or not? 🤔

LlynTegid · 08/08/2023 07:07

I'd be more displeased by not being included to begin with.

AnSolas · 08/08/2023 07:08

HowAmYa · 07/08/2023 22:49

I'm in a work watsapp group with about 16 men across the country, we have the same manager.
He always starts his messages at 'morning/afternoon gents'. Doesn't bother me. I work in a heavily male dominated role. I literally couldn't care less.

Your manager is a wanker you better be very very good at your job because he is keeping the only men work here ideal alive and well in your male dominated role

Jujubes5 · 08/08/2023 07:29

Is Gents exclusive of trans and non-binary staff?

Pinkitydrinkity · 08/08/2023 07:34

justanotheranony · 08/08/2023 00:48

Perhaps the company is more interested in earning money than pandering to woke employees.

Show quote history

It’s hardly “woke” to expect to be treated the same as male colleagues.

Middlelanehogger · 08/08/2023 07:58

Tell him you don't have capacity to work on the award submission due to the short notice, not having been cc'd to start with, and use the time to work on something revenue-generating for the company...

Blessing in disguise, getting stuck with this kind of busywork year after year is the real reason women don't progress in corporate, not people saying "Gents" on emails.

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 08/08/2023 08:06

Calling all Kens ....

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 08/08/2023 08:06

Calling all Kens ....

ilovemydogmore · 08/08/2023 08:34

CasperGutman · 08/08/2023 07:06

As a thought experiment, try flipping the genders here. Objecting to gendered language per se on principle and referring to women as "people other than men" would get you a real flaming on certain other MN threads! Is gender a real thing people should be aware of, or not? 🤔

Show quote history

I wasn't referring only to women, that's the point. It's about being inclusive.

If your opinion is that only two genders can be respected and represented then we will never agree.

CasperGutman · 08/08/2023 12:19

@ilovemydogmore I see where you were coming from in mentioning "people other than men" to be inclusive, fair enough. But I still suspect that a thread objecting to a small group of biological females, all of whom identify as female, use female pronouns etc. being addressed and referred to as such might have gone a different way on here.

Normalweirdo · 08/08/2023 14:30

" Now you 'Gents' have finally got round to the stage where you need a lady's input my findings are as follows "

TheBerry · 08/08/2023 14:40

Oversensitive imo. Especially since it WAS only men in the email he addressed to “Gents”. Honestly, it’s not something I’d give a second thought.

As for not including you in the first place, it sounds as though he messed up there - but couldn’t it just’ve been human error / oversight? Unless he constantly makes mistakes like that, I’d be giving him benefit of the doubt.

Also, what’s wrong with beers after work?? Sounds great.

If there’s a broader chauvinistic vibe in the office, that’s another issue, but based on this incident alone I’m not sure what there is to get upset over.

Crikeyisthatthetime · 08/08/2023 17:55

TheBerry, there should not have been only "gents" in the email. OP should have been included.

TheBerry · 08/08/2023 19:36

Crikeyisthatthetime · 08/08/2023 17:55

TheBerry, there should not have been only "gents" in the email. OP should have been included.

“As for not including you in the first place, it sounds as though he messed up there - but couldn’t it just’ve been human error / oversight? Unless he constantly makes mistakes like that, I’d be giving him benefit of the doubt.”

Ndhdiwntbsivnwg · 08/08/2023 20:23

This is why women will never break the glass ceiling
Who TF cares???