Psychopath

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I've just learnt apparently one per cent of the population is a psychopath.
But generally not in the film way (e.g American Psycho) but in an actual mental health way (e.g high impulsivity/low boredom threshold/egocentric/superficially charming/liars).
There's the Hare Checklist which I've got really into.
But what it boils down is that they don't seem to feel emotions.
I can't comprehend this - I get angry and sad and anxious and all the emotions - and am fascinated. One per seems huge.
Does anyone think they know a psychopath? Genuinely? This isn't an AIBU BTW. I'm honestly just really interested.

I would also add that at times I have wished to be a psychopath so that I did not have to live with my inherent weakness of caring so much about others.

As I grew up I kind of saw psychopathy as a super power. Disturbing but true. I realised had I not loved my Dad as much as I did despite his abject indifference, I could just pick up the nearest lamp or heavy object and defend myself against him without worrying about any damage.

My ex was a psychopath, very manipulative and could be violent, social norms meant nothing to him, he had no empathy at all, very scary

This.

I do think the disorder versus adaptation question is an interesting one to ponder. When it comes to successful pro-social psychopaths, is it in fact a personality maladaptation or disorder, as opposed to a distinct type?

I used to worry I was a psychopath as my emotional responses didn’t match what was expected of me and I didn’t feel like I cared about hurting people. Later in life I realised I’ve ASD and I was actually defending myself against the empathy and remorse that comes of misreading people and hurting them unintentionally. ‘I don’t care’ as a cover for ‘oh shit, now I’m upset too’. As I’ve got older, I’ve been better able to understand the feelings of others, and cope with the excess of feeling that comes from caring about them, as opposed to adamantly shutting it all out.

Chucking this in as an ND comparison-I think psychopathy is very different. Most of the ASD people I know are very sensitive in their own ways.

Edward St Aubyn’s Melrose novels contain a superb portrayal of a psychopath, especially the first. They hunt out weaknesses in people and exploit them. I’m pretty sure my aunt is a psychopath, or at least has psychopathic traits:

• No empathy. Feels nothing when good people suffer or die.
• Fakes real emotion. So she’ll say “ah, isn’t it sad,” etc but you know she couldn’t care less.
• Never misses an opportunity to hurt someone. Would tell a recovering anorexic that she looked “chubby,” for example, in the hope of triggering another bout of illness. And she’d do that even if the anorexic was a sweet and innocent person who’d done her no harm.
• No conscience. Feels no guilt for the evil things she says and does.
• Very, very manipulative. A chameleon who will be whatever you want her to be.
• Wears a mask.
• Will suddenly explode in rage when she feels trapped or humiliated or can’t get her own way. And when she does, it takes you by surprise (because the hatred and rage is hidden behind a mask).
• Charming (part of her manipulation).
• Causes upset and arguments and then sits back and enjoys the drama. She joined my book group once and it was a nightmare. She drove one person to leave by goading and offending her (always in that fake innocent way). Then she tried to turn the others in the group against another member. It was awful to watch. But my god was she clever. Nothing she said or did could ever have been called out. It was always done in an ‘innocent’ way. (We are now non-contact btw and I never want to see her again. Evil woman).

My ex manager scored highly on the psychopath scale - no empathy, compulsive lying (nothing was ever her fault), superficially charming, but a vicious bully. Has never stayed in a job longer than 3 years.

She tried so hard to get rid of the staff who had been there before she arrived, but in the end we waited her out.

@JaneyGee Seems similar to my experience and I think in my circumstance may be dealing with narcissism. Just a deep set hatred that's wrapped around some mask of a lovely caring person.

Extremely cunning with it to the point most people don't even know what she's like but everyones interactions are kept to a few hours and doesn't mix friends or circles and changes personality depending on those circles.

Cannot be in the wrong ever and any hint of criticism, humiliation or fault is met with some form of demonic like rage. Not anger but something unhinged.

Every time, even with proof, evidence or witnesses it's turned around in some way or another that makes them not at fault.

Generally anyone that goes against them and any perceived slight is taken deeply, even if not directed at them and the end result is being cut off completely. They don't exist and never did.

Interesting how to combat them if they are in your midst. Do you fight fire with fire? Do you play your cards close to your chest? Do you just get away as fast as possible? What if you are stuck with them for some reason?

I guess it would partly depend what was at stake.

I always thought one guy in my friendship group at school was a sociopath/psychopath. He was fun and could be very charming/persuasive but there was just a coldness behind his eyes and he was quick to anger. He slept with most of the girls in our group and a couple of us felt that we didn't really have a choice in the matter. I wouldn't say that he raped me as such but I did feel that saying no wasn't really an option. He was very rough (not in a fun way) and I felt like his sex doll. I haven't seen him for years. There was such an air of entitlement about him, he really thought he deserved everything he wanted and would get very angry if he didn't get it.

I think that depends on the situation you are in with them. I would say best method is to avoid all together and not give them a way in.

Obviously varying levels and everyone is different but if you're living with one it's hard because it's deceptive, they can be nice and clever with it you can easily get lost and trapped in it all. Emotional and psychological abuse was strong in mine but it turned physical, more volatile and more along the lines of your life is in danger.

For me, there was no getting through it didn't matter what happened they were never at fault, they did anything and anything to avoid that down to totally rewriting everything and themselves.

Pushing back, standing up for yourself resulted in extreme rage, levels I have never witnessed before and violence. Then ultimately being smeared as abusive towards them.

I mean there's so many different causes it's hard to know what you're dealing with. Some may just lack empathy to a degree, others like in my case would be capable of anything because of that non existent empathy or remorse.

How do you distinguish between psychopathy and narcissim?

My mother is manipulative and self centered. She is jealous and bitter about anyone doing/having/achieving a thing she might like to have done/had whatever. She can be underhanded and hurtful - sneaking little digs into lighthearted convo when you're not expecting it and then she'll change the subject. I think the only reason she cares about anyone is wrapped up in what they can do for her, or for optics.

She's got a massive ego. Even now in her 80s - she's fully bought into the 'wonderful little old lady' guise. But 2 or 3 minutes in her company and out comes the real person, jealous and twisted.

She'll emotionally manipulate you into doing/being what she needs without seeming to think there'll be any consequences. In other words she's a difficult bitch and then acts all wide eyed and confused about why anyone would avoid spending time with her. Plays the victim perfectly.

Me? Although i put my hand up to psychopathic tendencies, i go out of my way to never say anything hurtful or awkward to people - even ones i hate! I would never wish to physically hurt someone. I don't like to inflict pain or discomfort - i just don't feel anything for them. If i actively dislike someone i'll be nice to their face but find a way to remove them from my life.

I know my flaws, and i will admit them. If i felt someone was doing something for me out of duress, with bad feeling, unlike my mother i wouldn't be perfectly fine with it and pretend everything is hunky dory, i'd put a stop to it.

For clarity not because so much because of worrying about them, but because i'd look bad!

So who is who? And what?

@marblesthecat Sorry to hear that, it's not nice and I think it's a power or dominance thing. You are kind of like a puppet in a sense.

That's also something that was a running thing in mine too, and although I'm a guy, it felt off and not on the levels of rough most would be okay with. Almost sadistic at times but generally a need or a demand, whether you agreed or not, to be physically hurt by them during in some way or an expectation to be so rough you hurt yourself or you hurt them. It was never enough, each time the bar was raised to a higher level of pain experience.

I mean...there's rough sex then there's you're going to do damage rough.

Well, in my case it's my brother so I want to live with him in my life, and largely have done successfully for many years. I guess I just pick my battles. I let him manipulate me or think he's manipulating me if it's something I don't care about. If it's something I do care about, I know I can't appeal to him emotionally, I need to present it as "this is a course of action which would work out better for you" and sometimes that will be "this will work out better for you because I won't get fed up and cut contact and remove all this stuff I provide that I know you want" which is a card I know I can play a certain number of times in a given period.

I accept the reality of him. I can't be upset if he's being a b*stard in some areas because he always will be. I maintain some boundaries very firmly - he knows what I won't budge on and accepts this. I never try and fight fire with fire because I'd lose. I think if we weren't related I might cut contact. Not sure.

As an extra note, I sometimes wonder if my father had some mental quirk. He was totally unemotional. I don't think I have any memory of him hugging me or telling me he loved me. He could ignore all his kids for weeks at a time. When I cried or got upset about something when young I was ignored until I could be 'calm and rational'.

I wonder how that shaped both of us and if that has impacted how I react to my brother. I also have severe mental health issues, including psychosis (the other kind of psycho!) so clearly something went a bit wrong!

Yes. You can sense it. They just don't empathise with causing pain.

The world revolves around the one I know because people care more about him than he does about them. There are tells like how he doesn't bother with family because he knows they are always there.

But puts in the effort for a girlfirends birthday because he knows he needs to be seen to be a good boyfriend. He isnt trying to be a good boyfriend, he knows he needs to be seen as one.

They know how to play the game.

He isnt outwardly mean or nasty. He can be very charismatic and make friends quickly. I like him fine enough as a person at a social gathering.

But if he had a problem with you, you would lose to him before you even knew you were in a fight.

@Laiste I am only assuming narcissism in my case just by the behavior but it's hard to say for definite as can't diagnose it.

In your case from what I have seen, I don't think you are a psychopath, personally. I can relate to you in some ways. I don't care about things most people care about, celebrities, people I don't know I don't really care about their lives when being told about them, it's like...okay but I don't know them. Chit chat I can't do, I can but I find it a struggle and boring to be honest. More if I have something worthwhile saying, I'll say it.

However, I have empathy and I think I have too much in a way because I feel others sadness or pain, it's overwhelming at times but it's for people I can relate to or know. Same with animals, I have a very strong bond with animals and can generally train and tame them, even wild ones seem drawn to me.

I have been suggested that I am autistic because my children are diagnosed and it aligns with how they are too. See things in a different light, more factual or logical in general without the fluff. I have been this way since young, wise beyond my years or in the wrong time I've had it said. However I often get used because I'm too trusting because I generally see the good in people.

Narcissism on the other hand which I think I've experienced is deceiving and cunning. My entire relationship has been a lie, I've been living with an imposter. The person that I met and married is not the person they are today.

Total lack of empathy, remorse or guilt. Everything is a manipulation in order for their own gain or to bring others down. See themselves superior than everyone else but deep down they are fragile and they can't accept that to the point of delusion. They must never be to blame at fault or in the wrong because if they are, they are not perfect.

If you criticize, blame or slight in anyway they will do anything to avoid it and if you like too deep something raw comes out. The real version of themselves reads it's head. I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it but what I saw was someone evil.

They act like different people depending on who they are with. They can be loud and extrovert with extroverts and introverted with introverts. They are all about public image and will be overly nice to maintain that view but horrible at home.

Positive and negative emotions they enjoy. They do nice things for people but not out of care but for praise and they hurt and make people sad because it gives them a thrill, while demoting that person and raising themselves.

It's like an angry demon child inside an adults body, much like that horrible boy from Toy Story. But it's wrapped in layers upon layers of different masks of someone else and they create new masks as they go.

That's what I've experienced anyway... there's more but that's the gist.

I worked with someone who I think might well have been a psychopath. She masked it well in public and was extremely charming and charismatic, and could 'act' normal reactions pretty convincingly. But in private, when the public weren't looking, she was manipulative, ruthless and completely devoid of empathy or compassion. It was remarked at the time that she would have been a very efficient assassin.

Hmmm - yes, a struggle to empathise needn't necessarily go hand in hand with any desire to hurt or indifference to causing pain.

Perhaps it's when you throw into the mix a spoonful of sadistic tendency along with the lack of empathy. Chuck in a big ego, a sense of entitlement and an inability to feel guilt or compassion - and you get the monsters described here on this thread.

It's a sliding scale with add-ons on the side as well isn't it.
Fascinating subject.

So that’s the majority of the population though, because that was what voted for them.

Oh and as far as I can work out narcissists have no sense of consequence, they live in the moment and don't learn from mistakes and can't look towards the future.

A lot of what they do makes no logical sense. They do things and claim things they cannot backup and even with evidence proving otherwise, they will double down.

I score high for sociopathy on different tests not sure how to bring it up with my counsellor because we haven't really begun our face to face sessions yet.
I've known for a while that I don't feel things the same way as other people do. I'm not a violent person but don't feel bad about lying or manipulating other people to make my life easier.
People have used my lack of empathy to try and control me in the past, I don't feel bad about any of it.
A lot of my situation has been for survival.

I think my brother might be, he tells endless lies, manipulates everyone around him, has no empathy for anyone, even his own children, only sees people in how they can advantage him and has no interest in an actual relationship, thinks the world revolves around him, doesn’t care if he hurts people, hasn’t cared when his pets have been in pain or injured (in fact, a has even laughed over it), he takes from other and is outraged if they object and has never, ever done a single thing for anyone that doesn’t directly massively benefit him. He’s a horrible person, but I don’t think they’re all like that, from what I’ve read on the subject.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen sadly no.
There's around 47 million registered voters in the UK. Of those, only 14 million voted Tory at the last election.

Interesting post JibbaJab. And interesting that you use the word narcissism. My aunt is also narcissistic-histrionic. I suspect these kinds of traits (psychopathic, narcissistic, histrionic, sociopathic, etc) are often found together.

So much of what you write applies to my aunt. In her whole life (she is now 85), she’s never had a single friend. She keeps everyone at arm’s length because she cannot bear anyone to outdo her in any way. Other people are a threat. The idea of her sitting in a wine bar while one of her friends boasts about her daughter getting into Oxford is laughable. It would be torture. She is pathologically jealous, and either indifferent to other people’s pain, or delighted by it. But it isn’t just jealousy. I mean, in the sense of wanting what others have got. It’s the fear of being outdone. That’s what she really can’t bear - being put in the shade. Her idea of hell would be to have someone else use her failures and limitations to boost their own self-esteem. And if she senses someone is getting a self-esteem boost at her expense, she’s capable of anything. I know she’d drive someone to suicide if she could.

She’s also a compulsive liar. And everything is blown up to insane proportions. Her grandson, for example, did a degree in music technology or something at a night school. He now teaches kids at a further education institute. Basically, it’s the kids who’ve dropped out of school and don’t want to do A-levels. But she tells everyone he’s a university lecturer. Of course, that’s one of the reasons she’s never had a friend - the constant lying and exaggerating would be called out.

Like you say it’s the cunning, the false mask, that is so chilling. Her husband was the loveliest man I’ve ever met. He was a Royal Marine - tall, handsome, kind, patient, a loving father…just perfect. And he never saw through her. They were married for fifty years and he never had a clue. How she found him I will never know.

No, it isn't.

The 'majority of the population' didn't even vote. Of those that did, only around 34% voted Tory.

They formed a massive majority government off the back of a totally underwhelming vote, such is the ridiculous nature of FPTP elections in the UK.