Psychopath

[Namechange50008]

I've just learnt apparently one per cent of the population is a psychopath.
But generally not in the film way (e.g American Psycho) but in an actual mental health way (e.g high impulsivity/low boredom threshold/egocentric/superficially charming/liars).
There's the Hare Checklist which I've got really into.
But what it boils down is that they don't seem to feel emotions.
I can't comprehend this - I get angry and sad and anxious and all the emotions - and am fascinated. One per seems huge.
Does anyone think they know a psychopath? Genuinely? This isn't an AIBU BTW. I'm honestly just really interested.

@Namechange50008 I definitely felt/feel differently to other people.

My mother used to be horrified by my lack of emotional response to things that upset her/most people. For example, starving children in Africa on the news in the 80s. The coverage was designed to create an emotional response and my mother found it so upsetting. I just ... didn't.

I'm incredibly good at compartmentalizing things. I rarely feel guilt. There are times when I know I should feel guilty about something (because society says so) but I just don't.

I was raped as a teenager and it had much less impact on me than I suppose it should have. I simply disassociated myself from the event, analysed it and moved on. It sounds incredibly callous but it's just how I'm wired.

At my mum's funeral my brother had written a lovely, moving poem about my mum but felt he couldn't read it at the service. The entire family immediately said "Medusa will do it". And I did. Without a tear or shake to my voice.

I do however have an incredibly strong sense of justice and fairness and believe everyone should be treated with the same level of respect.

So true about the tories.

The Hare test has to be conducted by someone with expertise in psychopathy, that’s been specifically trained in applying the checklist, and it takes multiple sessions with a person in order to do the necessary deep dive into their entire lives. It really isn’t something that can be done quickly.

Another one of the issues with it is that it’s based on observing not just criminals, but criminal men. Psychopathy presents differently in women.

This is the most interesting thread I have read in a long time, thank you to those being so honest about themselves.

Does psychopathy run in families does anyone know?

When you have knowingly hurt someone and don’t feel remorse or guilt, what do you feel? Nothing?

Do you have a sense of love for your children own children? Or do you think it’s not possible to know.

My father said he didn’t really have feelings about anything very much, just anger, frustration, humour and some degree of pleasure from certain things.

This is so interesting and suggests that it’s a spectrum with some people affected to a lesser degree like yourself and others more fully affected.

Empathy is a funny one. When I react to awful news for somebody or a sad situation and say/think about how sad I feel for the affected person, I often catch myself and wonder “do I really feel that way or do I just know that I am expected to feel that way?” I usually come to the conclusion that it’s genuine but I do think about it. However, when my cat died a few months ago, although I was very upset about how much I would miss her, in the moment, my tears were all for her, not me - the agony I felt for how unwell she must be feeling and how confused she must feel because she didn’t understand it was off the scale. I’ve cried endless tears since she went about how much I miss her, but when it became obvious that she was very unwell, they were all for her, not me. I’d like to hope that that is conclusive proof of…well, something.

When I was a TA I worked with a child who I was convinced was a psychopath. They were cold and vindictive and I just didn't like being around them. Very, very clever but there was a dangerous air about them. Convinced I will read about them in the news one day, and not in a good way.

I worked with 100s of kids, some challenging behaviour and I liked them all. Just not this one, and I wasn't alone.

Also wondering about people who score very highly on some areas of the Hare checklist but not at all on others.

For example, the most unpleasant person I know is a police officer. She doesn’t tick any of the delinquency/crime parts of the list and she also prides herself on being 100% honest (one of those “just telling the truth” people who basically use honesty as an excuse to hurt people. However, her honesty also extends to absolute trustworthiness in relationships - she would never ever cheat on somebody, for example. That is disgusting to her - although she can’t see that, say, coercive control is just as much of a relationship crime). However, absolutely zero empathy, grandiose perception of herself, very entitled, rude, superficially charming, no remorse or guilt ever. Is she a psychopath? Or is she just a massive arsehole?

Yes.

I had a male friend for 5 years who turned out to be a sociopath.

He was charming, cultured, generous, had a high-powered job with one of the UK most recognisable company. Called himself a feminist and also always had beautiful and smart women on his arms.

Turns out he abused all of them behind close doors, constantly gaslighted them to the point of driving them mad/to self-harm making them doubt their own reality and cheated with other people, sometimes in front of his latest girlfriend just to hurt her.

Zero remorse and always blamed everyone else. He turned out to be a compulsive liar too.

I made the mistake of briefly dating him and that is when I finally learned the truth as he turned abusive almost immediately.

Thankfully his recklessness with drugs and alcohol finally caused the mask to slip and he got in trouble at work because of his increasingly angry behaviour, his latest girlfriend left him and our circle of friends also dumped him once I told them what he was doing to women behind closed door.

This was one of my best friends for 5 years... I was so angry that I had let someone like that in my life.

It really shook me and I had counselling to deal with the abuse and I also reflected on the fact that my parents also exhibited some of these traits when I was a child and that I probably fell for him because somehow his behaviour was familiar. It took a counsellor to finally help me see the light after all these years...

I am certain there's a strong genetic component, yes. In my experience people high in sociopathic traits who hurt someone just feel annoyed about that person's reaction, rather than sorry. DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) is a strongly psychopathic trait, imo.

The Hare list seems very specific to me with a very narrow list of questions.

If you are not a parent, have never been married (which is probably age dependent) and you have never ''caught'' by the justice system you probably will score lower but might still be a psychopath!

The cleverest can pass undetected too and won't have an existing medical/criminal record of sociopathy/psychopathy.

I have one in my life right now. I have been advised to pursue action against him. But I fear him.

Yes, there is a genetic component. There is a particular gene - MAOA that can correlate with psychopathic behaviour, although it isn’t a ‘psychopath gene’. There isn’t believed to be one gene, rather it’s more a case that generic variants that are be passed down.

The article above about James Fallon is worth a read - he has the MAOA gene, and there is a family history of crime there. How it is expressed though can depend on nurture, essentially genetics load the gun, and environment pulls the trigger.

There is a hypothesis that psychopathy is an evolutionary adaption, and an advantage:
https://www.psypost.org/2022/03/meta-analysis-suggests-psychopathy-may-be-an-adaptation-rather-than-a-mental-disorder-62723

I see myself as vastly different from most others, yes. My husband is probably the only person I’ll discuss it with as he is very similar. We are actually very good people - neither of us have any interest in hurting others, nor do we get pleasure from others’ pain. I think someone pointing out upthread that most studied psychopaths being part of the prison population is hugely important. I love my family and feel great empathy towards them, although how much of that is learned or because it impacts me is impossible to tell. I don’t, however, care much about others’ upset or in pain - although on a behavioural level, I avoid being the cause of that. I like order. I like to maintain the status quo. Being a good member of society - for me - is all about quid pro quo; if I don’t conform then how can I expect others to.

In terms of work and career, I’m pretty much of the opinion that if you get in my way then - well, I guess it won’t be me who comes off worst. I will climb at all costs and manipulation is part of that, but that doesn’t mean I enjoy playing games with people to see them suffer; it just means I’m one step ahead and tend to assume the worst in people. Both my husband and I are very driven and if we want something we get it. I think our personalities have led to us being successful.

I do have a massively strong sense of self / ego. I don’t see myself as more deserving than anyone else, but I do have a huge feeling of superiority if that makes sense? I don’t however expect others to think that of me. I really don’t care one bit what others think.

For me, a good upbringing and education has given me a strong set of values that I adhere to - I suppose it’s a sort of code in a sense. I’m also not professing to be a psychopath, as I don’t see myself as having any sort of personality disorder or being dangerous in any way. I just don’t empathise in the way most do. I actually see that empathy as being hugely hindering in a lot of situations. Obviously though, with it being the norm, you have to feign it most of the time or people jump to conclusions and think you’re capable of behaviour you’re actually not. I wouldn’t do anything that inconvenienced me, or put my life / family / job at risk. Do I have the capability in different circumstances? Probably.

My mother was like that, too.

I read that psychopathy is genetic and is passed down on the male side

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235211000845

And yes so true 😂

I can't say for sure obviously but yes I believe my wife was, that or a sociopath.

It's not what it's depicted as can be charming and intelligent with it but deep down there is something missing. There was a time where everything seemed genuine but over the years it became more apparent it was surface level or mimicking what had studied in others behavior.

I noticed this too over the years, a studying stare fixated on certain people but far too wide eyed and long duration. Used to do it to me, I would feel this intense feeling of being watched and out the corner of my eye this fixated stare and when I would look back they would instantly look away.

Very blunt to the point of being offensive, no deep empathy could see someone in pain, fear or danger and almost revel in it. Rewriting past, events to suit their own narrative and often changing personality on the fly based on who they were around.

Changing their entire past, events and personality as a whole to become someone they haven't before, regardless of evidence or witnesses.

Absolutely no concept of humor, nothing was funny and didn't understand or could process anything in that sense.

Often said never truly felt happiness or joy, envied most people and strong jealousy of others.

Abusive to the core but saw themselves as a saint and that everyone around them had it out for them and were abusive to them.

One thing I have come to learn, as they say, the eyes are the window to the soul and from what I saw in my experience was at times dark or voidness in the eyes. Totally glossed over and dull no spark almost, distance gaze, sometimes a smirk of whatever were thinking about.

Now the person I was knew no longer exists, a darker cruel person has emerged and their eyes look different, like possessed.

Interestingly while it is commonly believed that there are more male psychopaths than female, there is the suggestion that there isn’t in fact such a huge difference in prevalence between the sexes.

Research in psychopathy has overwhelmingly focused on imprisoned male psychopaths (again, problematic because this only reflects a minority of psychopaths), but comparatively very little has been done on female psychopaths, in or out of prison.

How the two sexes present is very different, and someone looking for a psychopath based on behaviour they would expect a male psychopath to exhibit, isn’t necessarily going to spot it in a woman. The traits are different, and it is much harder to detect precisely because people are looking for the masculine characteristics.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3767421/

High score, not surprised, not worried.

I've tried but i really can't describe what it's like.

Just the cliches -
I love my husband (2nd husband) and my kids and animals. Don't give a shit about anyone else basically. At all. I'm good at pretending i do though. Lots of people think i'm lovely and charming, but i'm really not. I think good manners are more important than good morals 99% of the time.

Most psychopaths are not murderers they are high functioning individuals and successful leaders in business, finance and are often charming and attractive to people. Think of the types of people operating at the top of government who could lie and make decisions that affect many others in an adverse way but not care and laugh off their actions. It's easy for them to do because they genuinely don't care. Most are not within the prison population or in state hospitals.

This last bit is me too. I come across as genuine, charming and really kind, but I’m not. I really don’t care much about anyone except my immediate family. I’m also really not interested in anyone’s life and find small talk an absolute drag, although I’ll engage in it effortlessly. I’m pretty good socially and enjoy being with people, but I find most of them boring after a while. I have to work really hard at not discarding people or friendships - making sure I don’t make rash decisions which could later be to my detriment.

The poster before who talked about a traumatic event which they compartmentalised rather than feeling hugely upset about (sorry if I’ve paraphrased wrongly) rings true too. I have had a couple of experiences in my life which really should have upset me but didn’t. I processed them, discussed them with my husband and moved on. I find when others experience similar and are (quite rightly) upset, I have to really dig deep and pretend I understand why they feel like that, and if I’m honest, I see it as weakness (although intellectually I know this is not the case).

This resonates for me too. I definitely love my children - but it's almost a primal, tangible love rather than an emotional one. I'm not at all blind to their flaws. DD would say I'm hyper critical though I try to reign it in. Not to prevent hurt (as you might assume) but to prevent damaging them psychologically. I'd happily kill for them though. I'd also be voted most likely to help them hide a body.

@thelinkisdead I hear you about considering others weaker because they can't process events/emotions the way I do. I have a view of myself as emotionally really strong and people who weep, wail and can't cope as "weak" and "less". Like you, intellectually I know this is wrong and I'd never voice it in real life.

Absolutely love the transparency and insight on here: I am really beginning to understand how it works.

Unlike many kinder souls on here. My Dad used to enjoy hitting us, if he had a bad day he had something small and soft to relieve his intense frustration, we were tiny (2years old) when he started. He would never hit us so much that my mother would actually leave, no arm fractures etc, but just enough to relieve himself.
He would laugh wildly at times with the rush he experienced or violently retaliate if we cried too loudly or too much, because if he wasn’t enjoying it, then it just annoyed him, the sound of our distress actually irritated the hell out of him and he would become even more angry and violent.
We learnt to bite back our screams because it would only make him worse. He was, and still has never been remotely sorry. He just can not see what is wrong with his actions, to him, it was an action that he took because he needed to. There is almost a confused response when he has been asked about his grotesque treatment of his own small children. The answer is he doesn’t like children. Especially not small children and we were annoying him, disturbing the football match commentary so he fixed it.

There is no empathy or remorse. His eyes get very fixed when he is about to turn, and nothing can stop him. He has never been afraid of anything, not the police when they came, not other men - no one bothers him, because he knows he will do whatever it takes to win/survive. You can’t stop a person like this, nothing works. He has no real empathy or fear even for himself.

Occasionally my mother would vow to leave, and he would be indifferent, then if she became really serious he might offer to take her shopping or promise her to change. He never did, he just knew he could tell her whatever she wanted to hear and she would stay in her place where he wanted her.

He was capable of deeper cruelty than violence, and that was even worse. Throwing my favourite toy on to concrete to smash it’s face would be a great way to cheer himself up, and watch me scream, or lock us up for hours until we pleaded to go to the toilet for hours Knowing he would kill us if we had an accident.

The total absence of humanity was terrifying to live with. Sadly my brother seems to have acquired the same traits, and over the years I had to contend with both of them.

I am sure many on here are fully aware of their power. My father saw emotions and feelings as pure weakness, pathetic whimpering and he would always have the upper hand - without effort because we cared and he didn’t put simply. I would say there was contempt for people that felt empathy, love or helped others. He just thought why bother? No concept of helping others or understanding pain and suffering. It was another language to him. He would play the game occasionally if it benefited him, but never because he had thoughts for another’s plight. There would be a calculation in there somewhere that is an advantage to him.

If it’s between my father and a Rottweiler as someone said upthread I would feel bloody sorry for the Rottweiler!

You really should never underestimate a psychopath or assume they have limits, or if you dig hard enough for long enough you will find a soul and humanity within them, that’s the scary thing when you realise it just doesn’t exist. By then you are way out of your depth and in deep danger.

My experience as a child of a psychopath is this, it is tremendously frightening, terrifying every day and I am truly relieved to still be alive and posting.

My brother is pretty sure he's a psychopath, or has some anti social personality disorder traits. I think he's probably right. He just doesn't feel a bunch of emotions. He's very charming (infuriatingly so - I always got so annoyed with the shit he got away with when we were kids and still gets away with), but utterly ruthless. He does feel love I think - he's totally devoted to his daughters and dog loyal to his close friends, and I know he'd bury a body for me in a heartbeat - but often in a slightly weird and controlling way and he is manipulative af. Once you know him and know the signs you can call him out on it (and I do) but he'll just laugh and say "well spotted". I've never seen him show any remorse for anything.

He's a serial philanderer, he's utterly malicious to those who cross him. He's never committed a crime that I know of (because it's usually not worth it) and he's not sadistic at all. He's just on a shorter emotional range than most people. Very successful professionally - did well in the army and now is in business and makes a fortune.