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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

People looking after children while wfh

493 replies

paws732 · 05/08/2023 08:22

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

OP posts:
transparentday · 05/08/2023 10:41

The thing is it works both ways. I work for a large employer, pre lockdown we all worked from the office and had our own desk.

Since the pandemic we are expected to work from home at least part of the time. Our workplace has got rid of large amount of office space, saving them a fortune in rent. There isn't the office space for us to work in the office full time.

Given the increase in interest rates and living costs we cant afford to move somewhere bigger, so we are in a house that is too small to accommodate a office room. My desk is in the 2nd reception room.

In the holdays, when my DH is on annual leave from work to look after the children, they are often at home (especially in this weather), but often am I working there too. And so there will be the occasional interruption or background noise, and that can't be helped because I want the children to be able to treat their home like a home, and not a workplace.

I expect my employer understand this, especially as it was their decision to make this set up permanent, and they're benefitting from it massively too.

Diddykong · 05/08/2023 10:41

Depends on the child. DC(8) has been home last week while DH and I worked and she kept herself busy through the working day. DC(4) is in childcare though as there is no way he would entertain himself.

Itsnotrightbutitsok · 05/08/2023 10:44

IcedPurple · 05/08/2023 10:37

WFH is not a substitute for having to pay childcare.

And I don't see how you could possibly 'get the job done' while simultaneously taking care of young children.

You can’t.

Which is why I’m lockdown so many people were saying they were struggling to juggle wfh and looking after their kids.

If it’s temporary or a one off then that’s different but if you’re working you need childcare in place.

Gowlett · 05/08/2023 10:45

Think about the children as well. My work is freelance, so sometimes I have to get things done out of “office hours”. DS hates it when I’m on the phone or laptop. It worked okay when he was small, but it’s impossible now that he’s a toddler & really needs my full attention.

Ballcactus · 05/08/2023 10:52

My kids have additional needs and can’t cope in holiday childcare. We have 1 week with family help so the rest is a real struggle, and my boss knows and understands. She also understands I’m high performing 🤷🏻‍♀️

Womencanlift · 05/08/2023 10:53

It’s all well and good people saying I catch up in the evenings and weekends and that is fine as long as working outside of standard hours doesn’t have a negative impact on colleagues e.g, work being delayed because your colleague did their part at 9pm rather than by the deadline of 2pm which meant your report was delayed to the next day or moving a meeting from the morning to 7pm “once the kids are settled” because they had to keep an eye on the kids during the day

Yes both things, and similar, happened in my team on a regular basis and did not go down well at all. So unprofessional and made colleagues look unprofessional too when things were late or didn’t progress when they should. It created such a bad atmosphere and management did have to intervene

I moved to a new company but from what I have heard working from the office is being heavily encouraged now at my old place, I wonder why that is happening…

afishcalledbreanda · 05/08/2023 10:54

And so there will be the occasional interruption or background noise, and that can't be helped because I want the children to be able to treat their home like a home, and not a workplace.

I expect my employer understand this, especially as it was their decision to make this set up permanent, and they're benefitting from it massively too.

Are you client-facing? Because I can assure you that when you're talking to a customer or a client and your child walks in and demands attention and you have to excuse yourself from the conversation and go and deal with them, the client/ customer doesn't feel they're benefitting massively from the situation.

Lavender14 · 05/08/2023 10:55

Anothernamethesamegame · 05/08/2023 09:49

I think it’s a very different situations for those WFH people who earn 80k+, have offices/garden rooms and have adequate finances to manage childcare than it is for someone WFH earning 25k or a barely liveable wage, working in the corner of their living room.

This is a really important point actually. Not everyone has a room they can close off to work in and they are still working in the family home. Children will naturally still want to approach their parent who's working at the kitchen table, even if there's another person there entertaining them, especially if they're feeling poorly/had a bump etc and need a cuddle . I think expecting children to sit perfectly in their own home and be neither seen nor heard is only workable if you've a big enough house to have a study. I certainly can't afford that and thanks to paying childcare costs at 13k a year it'll be hard for us to even save enough to have that at time soon. If I wfh all the time I'd take the saving on childcare so we could move to a better house that would accommodate wfh more easily. So it's not just an issue for women, it's an income issue and employees from a less economically privileged background will be unfairly penalised.

Pontiouspilate · 05/08/2023 10:58

I sometimes do with my 7 yr old but by about 5-6 they’re perfectly capable of not doing the things you’ve described in your post. We’re all humans trying to live our lives - and there’s a cost of living crisis so childcare is out of scope for many - stop being so uptight

AnneAnon · 05/08/2023 10:58

I think there is a bit of a division between the people who had to work and entertain toddlers during covid, and the ones who did not.

I had a two year old and a four year old during lockdown, and a full time nightmare of a job. Ain’t simply no way I’m having the kids at home while I work - even though they are 6 and 9 now. But I have friends who are “newer parents” than I am, and who think nothing of it.

I COULD have my 9 year old at home while I work. It would be a very boring and long day for her but it’s doable, if a bit crap. 6 is far too needy though, constantly hungry etc. Also they would fight if left alone for too long.

SophieTheWonderCat · 05/08/2023 11:00

@paws732 is it only Mothers who are doing this or are there Fathers too in this situation?

babbscrabbs · 05/08/2023 11:01

Pontiouspilate · 05/08/2023 10:58

I sometimes do with my 7 yr old but by about 5-6 they’re perfectly capable of not doing the things you’ve described in your post. We’re all humans trying to live our lives - and there’s a cost of living crisis so childcare is out of scope for many - stop being so uptight

SOME kids at that age might be perfectly capable of not doing those things.

Lots wouldn't.

Children all develop at different times and have different needs and abilities.

I'm sure you know this, if you think about it.

Floralnomad · 05/08/2023 11:03

SophieTheWonderCat · 05/08/2023 11:00

@paws732 is it only Mothers who are doing this or are there Fathers too in this situation?

I know a man who wfh and has his kids in the holidays some days . He writes them a daily schedule set out in 30 minute slots with what they are supposed to be doing and if they bother him at all he refers them to the schedule - they are 6 & 8 ish . It’s all very organised .

babbscrabbs · 05/08/2023 11:08

zingally · 05/08/2023 10:35

I'd expect the average 5-8 year old to be able to entertain themselves in their rooms for an hour at least.

Well by the law of averages 😂, many children are not average. 15-20% estimated to be neurodivergent for a start. Mine can actually entertain themselves for reasonable periods but I have little to no control over when those periods might be.

Bo1986 · 05/08/2023 11:11

I don’t think it’s fair for employers, colleagues and of course the kids who must be bored.

My friend works with someone who has completely removed their three year old from nursery (they earn too much for the free hours) and she’s also had to deal with unprofessionalism like the downloading of apps to prevent the computer logging off when this parent is away from the computer. So this has wasted her time in itself.

I have a situation where we have to be in the office three days a week which is great as it means we only have to worry about/pay for wrap around two days a week due to the long commute. If we keep taking the piss and the company decides to increase days (which is always being discussed, productivity of meetings and Co-working one reason given), I’ll have to pay for it five days a week again.

AnneAnon · 05/08/2023 11:14

I still pay for wraparound even on days I wfh. I’d rather they were in after school club doing arts and crafts and running around in the field than sat in front of an iPad at home

timeafterdime · 05/08/2023 11:14

I used to work in an FE college and one of the tutors would regularly teach a lesson online with her neighbour's toddler on her knee as she was babysitting!!

So unprofessional. YANBU

Wanttobefree2 · 05/08/2023 11:15

paws732 · 05/08/2023 08:22

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

I agree, you can’t work and look after kids properly without it being a detriment to your employer, even the best behaved kids aren’t going to be quiet and not need supervision for 8 hours! I agree, it’s what’s bringing staff back into the workplace.

SophieTheWonderCat · 05/08/2023 11:17

Floralnomad · 05/08/2023 11:03

I know a man who wfh and has his kids in the holidays some days . He writes them a daily schedule set out in 30 minute slots with what they are supposed to be doing and if they bother him at all he refers them to the schedule - they are 6 & 8 ish . It’s all very organised .

Show quote history

I suspect it is mainly Mothers who are landed with this but it's not a great situation for the advancement of women in the workplace. I think WFH has led to a feeling with some people that they are entitled to this.

RememberWhy · 05/08/2023 11:18

BeeBelle16 · 05/08/2023 08:28

As a manager I wouldn't be adverse to people having their children around when WFH but I would expect usual workload to be done on time and targets to be met.

I would also stipulate that of a client calls you/you have a virtual meeting with a client children not around then, and if client wants a face to face meeting you accommodate it and sort childcare

If it was an internal meeting and the child was around but behaving then I wouldn't mind this, but that's my view as a manager and mum.

My boss who has no kids and has never experienced the horror of the long holidays vs childcare and wrap around care may disagree!

I run a company and agree with the above 100%

Motheranddaughter · 05/08/2023 11:20

I don’t see how you can WFH and look after young children
Not fair on anyone
Also people who say it’s better for mums ,I am really not sure it is,must be really stressful
We would not want our staff WFH and looking after DC
We have made this clear and breaching this would be a disciplinary matter

CornishGem1975 · 05/08/2023 11:21

As a rule, we have to have childcare when we work from home (aside from sickness etc) but holidays I work from home for the duration and it's perfectly acceptable that we have our kids around. My employer does not expect us to put them in childcare all summer. That said, the littlest is in nursery as usual but the older ones who can entertain themselves/each other are around. I only have internal meetings, as I am not client facing so that's never an issue.

Hayliebells · 05/08/2023 11:25

Zanatdy · 05/08/2023 08:48

We allow it for children over school age - it says occasionally in the policy but it’s kind of accepted that means the school holidays. I’d be having a word with anyone who had children present during video meetings though, very unprofessional. I wouldn’t have let my kids just sit there all day every day whilst I worked. An odd day a week maybe but parents need to sort childcare like if they were in the office.

What do you mean by "over school age"? A child of secondary school age could be at home alone, so there's no real reason why they can't be there. If they have a parent who WFH, what are they supposed to do? Go out and wander the streets until the working day is over?

maddiemookins16mum · 05/08/2023 11:28

Loads of ours do it (but pretend the kids are at holiday club).
The performance of those doing this varies from no issues to dire.
One in particular clearly has all three under 9 at home, blurring her teams background does not hide the shrieking, arguing and crying. She also disappears for extended periods of time.
She has been explicitly asked if she has childcare in place and days yes.
However, I have some sympathy, her partner has fecked off, pays no money and she literally cannot afford childcare for a 2, 5 and 8 year old.

Another (single parent) has a really well behaved 6 year old and again struggles financially, she’s been forced to take unpaid parental leave for 4 of the 6 weeks. Mainly because she admitted she was going to be wfh with him there.

queenofthewild · 05/08/2023 11:32

A good friend is really struggling at the moment. She has a disabled child with SEND and has been unable to secure suitable childcare. Her usual holiday club say they can't cope with him any more and her attempts to find a childminder or nanny have been fruitless. I'd like to hope her employers and colleagues are sympathetic as her and her husband juggle childcare and working from home over the summer.