Crafters, if you copy someone's design that you've seen online you're not just a CF, you're a thief.

[ThingsBeingVarious]

I have a small, successful craft business and mostly sell online, which means there are loads of photographs of my work for anyone to see. Yet again I've just been made aware of someone copying my original design and selling the product - she probably thinks it's okay because she's raising money for her local charity. And sometimes my 'followers' and customers will send me a photo of the copy they've made saying I've 'inspired them'.

I know people often say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but it really fucks me off. People should think up their own designs, not scroll through Pinterest or Etsy or wherever looking for ideas to nick. Or if they haven't got any original ideas they can BUY patterns from other crafter's.

You can't stop someone copying your design for their own personal use - isn't that pretty much the point of Pinterest, to find inspiration for stuff? If you are bothered by this then YABU

Copying your stuff for resale is shitty though. I can see why that would upset you.

In the 1980’s my Mum used to copy the kids knitted jumpers from marks, they were fantastic as her knitting was superb. Would not have done it to a small business though

YANBU if its truly unique, unfortunately not a lot you can do about it, even huge corporations like Disney struggle to get anywhere with people ripping off their stuff to sell (they try though and do get a lot of accounts removed from Etsy etc)- some people are just shitty not that it makes it right.

I did go to a craft fayre a few weeks ago though and someone was selling miniature trees made out of twisted metal. I said these are beautiful, I have one similar to this at home and it always gets a lot of comments! She then demanded (I say this as angrily asked rather than just asked) to know where I'd got it from and when as she was going to take action as someone had obviously copied her work; I inherited it from my nan who (sadly) died many years ago- she said oh can't be like mine then as mine are the only ones but I wasn't even born then. Made me chuckle.

They may be breaching your intellectual property rights but they aren't a thief within the definition of the law.

I agree OP but it seems to be an unspoken rule you expect nice ordinary people who are just trying things out to somehow know. I’d make this clearer on your posts. Because Pinterest is, as a pp said, a site for inspiration.

To be honest OP I suspect most people will think it’s absolutely fine to copy something for their own craft project that’s for their own family use.

Absolutely NOT OK to copy and sell. Morally the two feel very different. I haven’t a clue about legality.

But, if someone else had already made a kangaroo in whatever medium it is that you use, how would you prove that you hadn't seen it and based your kangaroo on it? I mean sure you'd have you sketches etc, but how would you prove that their kangaroo hadn't given you the idea?

A couple of years ago I did a pattern test for someone. Then started a jumper using the same stitch because I loved it. They didn't invent the stitch, and I'd previously wanted to make something with it but didn't know what. About half way through the jumper I thought "ahhh! Never seen this stitch done with 2 colours, I wonder what that would look like?" ( not saying it hasn't been done. But I hadn't seen it). Before I had a chance to try, the original designer I'd tested for released a new pattern. A jumper, similar in style and shape to mine. Using that stitch IN 2 COLOURS.
So of course if I decide to do it now it will look like I copied. Even though we had the same idea independently of eachother.

In all of that no one copied anyone, yet we ended up 'designing' very similar things.

I know a bit about this. Unfortunately they only need to slightly change the design/materials/colour and then there’s not much you can do. It’s incredibly hard to copyright an artistic design and once it’s out there it’s in the public domain and open to all sorts of use and abuse. I have posted pieces where people have casually asked ‘how I made it’ or even just blatantly said they are going to copy it, which I always say is fine but not for resale. I know they will ignore it though.

I'm on the fence with this, copying your design and then telling you that's what they've done is out of order, even if it is for charity. Certainly the person who copied your idea to sell themselves shouldn't.

On the other hand it is difficult to be completely unique -on trend colours, animals and crafts can mean people independently come up with similar ideas so it's hard to say someone has copied an idea unless they've admitted it.

Could you share one of your simplest designs (which wouldn't show someone how to do all the techniques you use) as one that followers have permission to make and sell for charity, provided that they share where the pattern is from and where they could buy other items?

But you do to all that effort because YOU want to sell it. Of course anyone wanting to create and sell something should be doing it themselves. No one said it was ok to copy something exactly and then sell it.

Saying someone can’t use your photos as inspiration when you do exactly that, is bizarre.

How did you learn your technique originally? You, probably, started crafting and the technique you use has come from your own experiences and things you have learned. You didn’t learn crafting without input from anyone else. So you are using other peoples work, as inspiration that you have learned to come up with your unique idea. You didn’t wake up one morning with no background in crafting with this completely unique idea.

If you have no pictures of the pattern online, people can’t copy it exactly can they? Because you will have started with a basic one and tweaked it to something (you believe) is unique. They are unlikely to get first try. If they see your kangaroo online, try one , don’t like it, try another, don’t like it and so on. They aren’t copying your pattern. They have taken inspiration and creating their own. And their final pattern is likely to be different if yours is so unique. If they naturally come to the exact same pattern as you, then yours was unlikely unique at all. It was just likely to involve a mix common techniques all crafters use when tweaking something.

Deciding that if someone wants to make something , for their own use, similar to something they have seen on Pinterest but not gone through all the same steps to tweak and get right, makes them a CF. Makes no sense.

It’s no different to you using photos of kangaroos other people own as your inspiration. You do realise someone owns those photos?

I can’t stop people from copying my business as such (I didn’t invent it) but I now have quite a few Instagram followers and get lots of similar businesses following me. I remember when I first started up I followed someone else’s business and they blocked me. I found it so petty at the time but they were obviously feeling threatened so I can understand it now but I haven’t blocked anyone who’s done the same. Last week I had one of these businesses message me looking for tips on growing their business. I clicked on them and they’re literally doing the exact same thing I do. I couldn’t understand why they’d think it was okay to ask or why I would possibly reply. They’d be a direct competitor looking for ways to grow their sales (aka steal my sales when I’m just trying to pay my bills) 😵‍💫

Respect to the 40% who don't think it's right to copy another person's work without permission, whether to sell, gift or keep for yourself. For the other 60% here's how I see it...

It’s bonkers that you think people aren’t allowed to copy your work for their own personal use. 😂

Of course no one should be selling copies of another artist's work, but I don't understand why you're getting the hump with your fans who try to mimic your designs for their own personal use. They even send you photos thinking you'll say "oh, that looks great!" and instead they get a missive about how they're committing a moral crime? That's really mean spirited. There's nothing wrong with trying to reproduce something as long as you're not selling it and not passing it off as your own design. (And that's why copyright law only extends to public displays and selling, not personal use.)

You might do that but it doesn’t actually make you a better person than someone who would look at how other people have made kangaroos, see what their solutions are to the problems of kangaroo construction, and come up with the best kangaroo they can building on both their own kangaroo research and the kangaroos others have made.

If someone has only looked at one other person’s kangaroo and done a straight copy that’s not so creative, but it’s a continuum between that and looking at lots.

Yeah I voted Yanbu but actually I don’t think there’s an issue with someone copying it because they want one for themselves. Even giving one as a gift. Selling is a different kettle of fish.

I agree it's not ok.

Fashion houses copy designs too, stitch for stitch. You'd think given their enormous creative talent they would try and come up with something original.

Here's Tom Ford ripping off a Romanian blouse.

I think you're conflating two issues. I am a knitter. If I see an idea online, and work out how to create the same sort of pattern and knit it for myself, for my own use, that's fine. It's not fine to sell the pattern though. That scenario is the same as me seeing some fancy type of cake in Waitrose, decorated in a particular way, and baking my own version at home.

This is making me think of the GBBO Extra Slice segment where they get home bakers to COPY a professional cake bear/film star/cartoon character and then share.

Some are amazing, some are 💩💩💩 but I don’t think anyone is getting wound up saying it’s cheeky fuckery.

@Caprisunny I don't look at photos of (for example 😂) kangaroos that other people have made, I would look at images of real life kangaroos!

I get your annoyance - as a creative myself, I'd be annoyed if someone ripped off my work. I know there's an argument that there's no such thing as an original design, that everything is inspired by something else, but that doesn't make it okay.

If someone has the audacity to email you showing how they've ripped off your specific design that you sell on your site, send them an invoice!

Definitely get some legal advice too about intellectual property theft/copyright but sadly I don't think it will help much.

Dont you think its likely that someone is seeing your work and thinking to themselves how cheeky it is that you copied them?

Very little is original in the world

Lots of make up brands do it too :( one in particular beginning with R aren't even subtle about it they're very brazen about stealing the design and product from mostly small creators that have a hard time fighting back. People laugh when Aldi do it as well, blatantly copying designs and products but changing it just enough but I find that crappy too even though they're big companies; I don't buy any of their second rate 'dupes' aka rip offs.

Not sure how accurate but some of the big brands apparently make a cheaper version of their own products for aldi.

Op. I get it. I've been designing and selling for over 15 years now on Etsy and have a successful business but I get this all the time. I've even had cheeky fuckers steal my images in the past and pass them off as their own. I've also had other competitors email me asking how I do a particular thing to get a certain effect as they've tried A, B, C and theirs aren't as good as mine. They get told to fuck off in the nicest possible way as it's taken me years of practice, blood sweat and tears to build my business and perfect my technique I'm not giving away my trade secrets so some other CF can undercut me.

Not a lot you can do though, but I'm not polite anymore, it's dog eat dog out there unfortunately.

I understand though op and completely get it.

I think this is just how it is. You don’t really own your ideas in the way you think. Learning and copying from one another is a basic human behaviour. It’s not limited to crafting or small business in any way.