Crafters, if you copy someone's design that you've seen online you're not just a CF, you're a thief.

[ThingsBeingVarious]

I have a small, successful craft business and mostly sell online, which means there are loads of photographs of my work for anyone to see. Yet again I've just been made aware of someone copying my original design and selling the product - she probably thinks it's okay because she's raising money for her local charity. And sometimes my 'followers' and customers will send me a photo of the copy they've made saying I've 'inspired them'.

I know people often say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but it really fucks me off. People should think up their own designs, not scroll through Pinterest or Etsy or wherever looking for ideas to nick. Or if they haven't got any original ideas they can BUY patterns from other crafter's.

Would also depend on the scarf as the Weasley esque scarfs are just normal scrappy scarves

To my mind these are two massively different things. Reproducing your designs to make money is a clear, obvious "no".

People copying it for their own pleasure, without having access to pattern/instructions, and making a one off for themselves is completely different. I would have thought that falls under the Fair Use box in the infographic. Otherwise anyone who's ever made their child's birthday cake by copying a picture they found on the internet is committing some heinous crime.

YANBU.

People who wholesale rip off other people's work are cheeky fuckers. Part of being an artist is being original.

Is this about the knitted courgettes?

I do hope so.

You are not unreasonable to be miffed that people pass off their copies as something they have designed and made themselves. You are unreasonable to label everyone who makes something very similar to your work CF and thief.

If you sell online (and even if you don't) pictures of your work will be widely available. I might decide to 'copy' it because I am inspired or because I want to try out the technique or because I can't afford the original. I might not be able to track back to the original to give due credit and you don't want to sell a pattern which I could legitimately copy. I. agree your original artistry and skill is probably not being adequately recognised or rewarded but I don't see how it can be

Generally they get away with it by not being caught. There are an absolute ton of copyright and trademark breaches - the market is saturated with them. Just look at Etsy - they seem to turn a blind eye to some sellers while clamping down on others. I have no idea how they work behind the scenes. There seems to be no logic.

OP, you’re not wrong.

I run a really large online craft group and over the last 12-13 years or so I’ve dealt with quite literally hundreds and hundreds of complaints of this nature.

Sometimes the person claiming g a “unique” idea just hasn’t realised that they’re not the first to think of it. Or they’re trying to protect something that is rather generic.

However in the vast majority of cases, it’s lazy copycat sellers who are trying to make a quick buck from someone else’s creativity and talent.

The craft world is creaking under the weight of poor quality sellers - people who don’t care about the originality or quality of what they do. Often they don’t even particularly enjoy crafting. It’s a means for many to make money. There’s nothing wrong with that!! However so many aren’t willing to practice the craft or put the time in to become skilled and genuinely creative. The result is lots of poor quality items which have been copied from other crafters who DID put in the time and effort. Crafting was traditionally all about high quality, handmade, original items - but it’s being ruined by some bad apples.

To all of you who think it’s Ok to copy another crafter and sell the result….. Do you think it would be ok for one big company to set up a business copying another? Of course it wouldn’t! The established business would take the other to court. Small crafters typically don’t have the finances for a big court battle - and don’t have a heavyweight legal team on speed dial. That doesn’t mean they should be considered as fair game for anyone who wants to rip them off.

If someone can guess the original item from your “inspired” make then it’s not “inspired”, it’s a copyright infringement. And if you want to see how seriously companies take that then have a look at Disney. Anything vaguely resembling their items is crushed with the full weight of the billion pound corporation.

Just have a bit of decency, eh? It’s not a lot to bloody ask.

YANBU about people copying to sell, that's awful and wrong. But this attitude -
All PP's admitting to copying work you see online - I can't understand why you don't feel ashamed of stealing someone else's ideas, why don't you try to create something using your own imagination? and calling people 'disgraceful' is nasty and wrong.

I like drawing but I'm not very good at it. I can copy really quite well and I enjoy the process of making the images, but I could never just draw something from life or my imagination. I'm not talented or educated enough. So I sometimes scroll Pinterest and pick a beautiful mandala design or something similar and spend time copying it. I don't show it to anyone or even look at it again let alone publish or sell it, and the reason I do it is because I enjoy it. I don't consider I'm doing anything wrong doing that and it harms the original creator not at all.

To all of you who think it’s Ok to copy another crafter and sell the result

has anyone on this thread actually said that??

Hmmm I think where you mention Pinterest the argument regarding copying for personal use falls down.

Pinterest is designed as an inspiration social media. It’s the whole point. You can shop through Pinterest. But it’s primarily always been for inspiration. For people then to create themselves.

I think you need to understand that if people see something they may always want to create their own version. I don’t get the problem with personal use. Selling it, yes, I get that. But I haven’t seen anyone here saying they would use a design as their main inspiration and sell it.

I have just started embroidery so using patterns I bought off esty. One is an autumn themed one. If next autumn I am at the stage of creating my own Pinterest will be the place I look for inspiration. Photos, autumn themed interior design etc.

I do also think that many professional crafters really think their items are unique when they aren’t. Obviously can’t comment in this case as we don’t know the item.

Who said they are copying and selling? Or that, that was ok?

Actually your second to last paragraph is wrong. It’s not necessarily a copyright infringement, just because you can tell where something has been inspired from. How would that even work? Not everyone has seen everyone else’s work. But also there are tolerances. The tolerances are not high enough to make sure everything created is unique or that you can’t see where the inspiration is from.

Quite frankly, most crafters are not doing anything entirely unique. Even if they genuinely believe it is.

A lot of crafters write a sentence or two explaining that copying is breaching copyright and what action they will take if they catch anyone doing it.

A needle felted I follow says that we can copy and make her designs but we have to mention that it is her that we got the idea from.

Years ago I breathed something I called a frogs mouth, it was a fitted coaster that goes onto the base of a wine glass (looked like a frogs mouth when making it)
Anyway it got copied and I have actually seen Debbie shore do a tutorial on it. I used to be pissed off about it but too much time has now passed.

I saw a knitted square on Etsy that the seller had knitted herself and was selling for baby comforters. It was perfect. Easy and quick to knit and so so popular, a really good money spinner. I could do the same, but i guessed she had created the stitch herself as I couldn't find one the same at all. She had also had the idea herself to make and sell them on various platforms. So yes, if I had the stitch and the same yarn (again I couldnt source) I would have made and sold them. But I couldnt do all of this.
So I'm guessing it was something similar to this

I once saw a very expensive sweater in a designer shop in Copenhagen.

I had an identical sweater. My mum had knitted it based on a pattern from a pattern book she had inherited from her grandmother. As far as I remember it was from around 1910.
So sure paintings I usually accept as original art but knit designs, crochet designs and seeing patterns have to be extremely excentric in order to be truly original.

I craft in a few different techniques and areas , in general I guess we all use existing ideas to inspire new ones .

I think you need to be really clear on all your selling sites and socials that you do not want your original ideas sold even for charity . Also stating the follow up action you will take if it happens , and be prepared to do so .

One online craft group I belong to has 125k members and we positively encourage sharing ideas , methods and techniques including tutorials on how to make the items . However in this particular craft it’s a saturated market and many make for pleasure , it’s hard to make a profit from . I think some crafters are used to these types of sharing groups and they wouldn’t necessarily think there was a problem using your ideas , although selling them is a step too far and I understand your annoyance.

I used to sell another of my crafts , but again with anything popular the market becomes saturated by sellers and in the end the products and ideas once out there are just too easy to break down and copy.

unfortunately there is fairly little out there that is completely unique .

This is bonkers. Of course people shouldn't copy your designs to sell, but copying from a photo for their own personal use is hardly 'disgraceful' as they aren't receiving any financial benefit, just enjoyment - and surely that is flattery?

Years ago I breathed something I called a frogs mouth, it was a fitted coaster that goes onto the base of a wine glass (looked like a frogs mouth when making it)
Anyway it got copied and I have actually seen Debbie shore do a tutorial on it. I used to be pissed off about it but too much time has now passed.

Surely similar coasters have been around for decades?

livereloved.co.uk/products/vintage-retro-linen-embroidered-glass-mats-coasters-with-matching-small-napkins-rooster-cockerel These are from 1971

And these seem to be from the '50s www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/vintage-wine-glass-coaster-6-linen-slip-on-coasters-pastel--320459329727181551/

On the other hand I see people selling crochet patterns that are 'their' design which is absolute rubbish as I've seen the same pattern or stitch from 1974.

I think people are saying YABU in part because it's really hard to know whether the OP is justified or not unless we can see the items in question. I've seen some blatently unfair cases of what the OP is talking about. I've also seen cases of crafters getting the hump because someone "copied" a design that is utterly generic and has been done by a million people already. I think we need to see the actual items here.

It's a bit hard to judge without knowing exactly how unique the item is tbh.

I think copying and reselling is a big no. And if I was inspired and made my own for personal use I'm not sure why I'd then send you a copy to rub it in that I didn't buy yours!!

They can't be a thief if what they are doing isn't theft and it definitely doesn't meet the definition of theft (the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it) because there is no property being stollen.

I don't know too much about intellectual property, trademarks etc, but I do know that they cannot breach something that isn't in place.

Respect to the 40% who don't think it's right to copy another person's work without permission, whether to sell, gift or keep for yourself. For the other 60% here's how I see it...

Say I want to make a kangaroo (I've never made a kangaroo!). I don't scroll through Pinterest looking for the most appealing kangaroo then just try to copy that. I would look at images of real kangaroos, notice their shape, expressions, colours, the way they stand and move, make a few sketches and work out what position and size would work best in the medium I use. Then I'd make some templates and mock up a kangaroo, seeing if my idea worked, probably realise the tail was too thin so it fell down, or the ears made it look like a rabbit. So I'd keep tweaking until it looked right, then choose the perfect material and make a prototype, which I'd then embellish in the way that is noticeably my style. Then I'd spend a few hours finding the perfect place for a photoshoot of the kangaroo, set up a scene, then edit the photos. I'd then make another kangaroo, timing how long it took so I could price it above minimum wage for me but affordable for my customers. Then I put it online to sell.

Someone will then pin my photo to their board or share it somewhere online. Despite there being (I expect) hundreds of kangaroo patterns for sale and plenty of free kangaroo tutorials, 60% would rather not spend a few quid on a pattern or make the effort to think creatively themselves, instead they somehow feel entitled to piggyback on all the time and effort I've put in coming up with this particular kangaroo.

That IS being a CF and it is stealing someone else's idea. Makes me think of Burglar Bill - 'that's a nice kangaroo, I'll have that'.

But yeah I know there's FA I can do about it. Some people are shitty. I am grateful that my work sells well and I love what I do, so that's what I need to concentrate on. But it would be nice if people thought about what and who was behind the images they're copying.

Yabvu to be pissed off with people for copying, crediting you and not attempting to make any money out of it. People who steal your ideas to sell are a different matter and are breaking the law, and those who copy and revel in the admiration without crediting you are behaving shabbily even if not breaking the law.

Creativity is a mixture of the idea and the execution. People copy in order to work on their execution, a process which was formalised in art school training for centuries. However copying a well conceived work can also help you understand the design and improve your own ideas.

Perhaps you learned your craft without ever looking at anybody else’s work but it seems unlikely.

As a crafter and attendee of craft fairs selling various things from crochet, jewellery, fabric items, pinboards, handbags, and cushions, I can attest that the craft world is rife with people taking "inspiration " from each other. I would literally be at a craft fair, attend a couple of weeks later, and see a copy of something I had made. One time a woman even stood at my stall and tried to deconstruct an item I had made to see how it was put together, she was another stall holder so I knew it wasn't just a customer interested in the piece. But on the flip side I was recently accused of stealing an idea for a crochet blanket which was a simple granny square with an identifiable summer flower in the middle of each square. The flower only comes in one colour, it really was a very simple design that i in fact followed from an online tutorial, but when I posted a picture of the finished blanket in my Facebook craft group, this woman outright accused me of seeing her design! Eh, no love, it's from a YouTube tutorial. And you don't own the rights to either granny squares or the image of this flower.
My point is that you will never stop people copying your stuff and as a crafter, to a large extent, you do have to accept this unless your item is genuinely a one of a kind thing that has never existed before, is copyrighted, or they are literally putting your branding on it.
I am sure you yourself have probably been influenced by things you have seen online and by other crafters?