Crafters, if you copy someone's design that you've seen online you're not just a CF, you're a thief.

[ThingsBeingVarious]

I have a small, successful craft business and mostly sell online, which means there are loads of photographs of my work for anyone to see. Yet again I've just been made aware of someone copying my original design and selling the product - she probably thinks it's okay because she's raising money for her local charity. And sometimes my 'followers' and customers will send me a photo of the copy they've made saying I've 'inspired them'.

I know people often say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but it really fucks me off. People should think up their own designs, not scroll through Pinterest or Etsy or wherever looking for ideas to nick. Or if they haven't got any original ideas they can BUY patterns from other crafter's.

I thought Pepsi and Coke had different recipes and burgers is burgers. You can’t really copyright common types of food and drink as a cow is a cow. (You can copyright the use of the name ‘Big Mac’ but you can’t stop other businesses selling burgers.) Some product names are protected by their location in the EU but I don’t think you can compare two businesses selling a similar common universal product to an artist (or crafter) having their work ripped off.

It’s really common op and YANU but the reason it happens is because people have so little respect and understanding for the culture they consume every day. Hence why people are voting you unreasonable. If it was their business/art they would feel the same as you.

There is something called 'unregistered rights' which does give a measure of protection to artists/makers when people copy their work. I've sent polite but strongly worded emails to people I've been made aware of who are copying my work to sell, and when followers/customers send me pics of their copies I reply with a friendly but very clear message telling them that they do not have the right to use my design without my permission (which I am not giving!). So far I've always had apologetic responses, basically saying they didn't realise, but tbh I've no idea if it's stopped them making copies.

@DPotter thanks for your advice, it's very helpful. I'm not going to make a pattern to sell until I've decided I no longer want to make what I'm making.

All PP's admitting to copying work you see online - I can't understand why you don't feel ashamed of stealing someone else's ideas, why don't you try to create something using your own imagination? It might not be completely original but at least you've had some creative input into your own work.

@Mousehoel that's an excellent infographic, I might attach that to any messages I have to send to copiers in future. Thank you.

…but you didn’t make it. It’s someone else’s work…

I am really curious about this thing that you’ve done that no one ever in the world in thousands of years has ever done…

Me too!

@AnneAnon it's licenced under Creative Commons and permission to share has been granted.

Oh relax I was just joking

You're free to not sell your work online at all if you don't want people copying it. No? Didn't think so.

to be fair I’ve never understood how so many small businesses get away with selling wall art with song lyrics. How is that not a total copyright breach

That's the pickle with online

How did artists of the past learn their crafts?

By being apprentice to a master and spending all day every day literally copying their work.

As a species, imitation is how we learn, from watching and copying how others stand on two feet and walk, how to find food, or how to paint or make something.

I would draw the line at people selling what they have copied though.

So because she doesn’t want people copying her art she shouldn’t sell it?
Copyright is a thing. People can be inspired by art, they cannot copy it and pass it off as their own.

@AnneAnon sorry, it was funny, I'm too touchy this evening because I just got a message from a customer with a photo of her copy of my work. I've had nice online chats with this customer and she's a talented maker of her own craft, now I feel awkward because I'm going to have reply telling her to stop selling her copies of my work and it feels like it's soured the nice connection we had. I had a ridiculously sensitive response to your joke, I'll try and lighten up but I am genuinely fucked off with the situation generally - mostly because there's nothing much I can do about it. Pah.

YANBU OP.

Inspiration is one thing. Outright copying is another. It’s clearly morally wrong. But as you can see from this thread, many people either don’t understand what goes into a unique creation, or they just don’t care. There are many people copying on Etsy, and how they have the nerve and feel no shame is beyond me. But then, many people are arseholes, so 🤷‍♀️

I think a lot of us are just wondering what this ‘unique’ craft is.

I’m really surprised at the hostility the op is getting on here. People don’t seem to understand the difference between taking something as inspiration in making something new and direct copying that involves no creativity. The former is a good thing, the latter is a lack of integrity.

I buy ceramics and while there are similarities among makers, sometimes very strong, the people who are good enough to sell at exhibitions and pottery fairs have styles distinct enough that you can easily recognise their work. It would certainly be morally dubious if nothing else for someone to closely copy the style of a maker who has developed their distinct work over decades.

That’s before you even get into the legal side of it. Lots of misinformation on this thread.

I totally understand your frustration op. I’m a painter, have my work at a few galleries. I sell the painting but still own the copyright, which means legally no one can copy the art in any way and sell it on. That’s actually against copyright law. So totally reasonable for someone in your position to expect the same rights. Why should someone else profit from your hard work and creativity, and quite possibly steal your customers. This is way more than just being inspired by someone’s work.

@TenOhSeven so you admit to stealing other people's cross stitch designs and think it's their own fault for actually showing you their work online. You are exactly the type of person my thread title is about. Disgraceful.

Fair enough for people selling their copies, but to get the hump with people
Copying from photos for their own personal use is insane. That’s just human nature, when I see a dress in a shop and sew a copy from memory that’s not cheating, my embroidery of Van Gogh’z sunflowers isn’t immoral. I do admit it’s a bit crass to message you with photos of the copy

Yes you can copy art and crafts as a personal exercise to improve, you just can’t sell, publish or pass it off as your own work.

I’m surprised the vote is currently a small majority saying the OP is unreasonable. Commercial considerations aside, it’s just dishonest; taking credit for someone else’s talent and labour.

For most arts, craft, design and scholarship it’s not the physical ability to create the end product that has the value, it’s the idea, composition and design. I can write and type, that doesn’t mean it’s okay for me to type out an Emily Dickinson poem and share it on Facebook as my own work. I’m not as gifted as Emily Dickinson because I can write out her poem. That’s an extreme example but a real life one is that I’m currently copying Cezanne, Gauguin and other similar artists works in oils to help me be more expressionistic and hopefully learn from how they apply paint and colour and simplify and suggest form and light. I also paint from life. Now I’ve painted a belting Gauguin still life, even if I say so myself, so much more effective and energetic than my paintings from life are, and that’s because I’m not as fucking good as Gauguin! When I’m not slavishly copying his marks, composition and colours, I’m back to being an unremarkable hobbyist.

Can’t people see why it would be wrong for me to post photos of these copies without acknowledgement of them being copies? Let alone selling them.

At least Cezanne and Gauguin are dead and wouldn’t be missing out on income as the people currently creating things to sell do. Imagine the frustration of coming up with something really effective and getting the affirmation and income from reviews and sales only to see 3 other sellers undercutting you within weeks.

Yes you can’t stop someone cross-stitching a crinoline lady because you’ve done one, but you CAN stop them producing identical patterns or copies and passing them off as their own work or selling them without permission.

I’m a knitter and crocheter, loads of patterns are just copies of other designs.
If you look at ravelry there are hundreds of patterns for Harry Potter jumpers, Dr who scarves and superhero’s stuff. They are literally direct copies of things made for films and TV, no one says anything about that.

It really depends on how unique the item is and if it's truly unlike anything that's been done before. If it's clothing or crochet then a lot of designs are considered too generic to be protected by copyright. Hence why fast fashion brands can get away with blatantly copying Balmain dresses etc. However if your product is something truly unique then I understand your frustration.

I have noticed a huge amount of material on Etsy that blatantly violates trademarks e.g. homemade Disney and Nintendo toys. Both companies are notorious litigious so I don't know how Etsy get away with it.

I think that's a bit different because it's for personal use. If they were making them to sell then the owner of the brand could force them to stop, but if you're just making a scarf for yourself there's not much they can do about it.

Op we really need to know what it is before we can pass judgement. I am also in the camp that your idea is probably also derivative of others works and so isn't as original as you think but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I’m surprised the vote is currently a small majority saying the OP is unreasonable. Commercial considerations aside, it’s just dishonest; taking credit for someone else’s talent and labour.

Based on the comments, I’d say the voting is explained by a mixture of simply not understanding the subject (thinking anyone can copy anything, being confused about intellectual property, believing all art and craft is just a copy of something else) and undervaluing creativity. We live in a society that doesn’t value creativity and originality, though, so I guess it’s to be expected.