Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Think less of my friend for reporting somebody for benefit fraud

133 replies

JimJams91 · 01/08/2023 19:50

My new-ish friend told me yesterday that she has reported her ex husbands new girlfriend for benefit fraud.

She doesn't know for certain that she's even committing benefit fraud but is feeling resentful about the small amount of CMS she receives from XH and doesn't like the thought of him spending money on another family (the girlfriend has children of her own that don't belong to the XH - children's father is deceased so the XH is likely spending a fair bit of time with/around them)

I felt quite uncomfortable when she told me about it and said I don't think it was the right thing to do because 1) there's no proof it's even happening and 2) if it is happening it'll impact her children more than it will her XH as he won't be the one in legal trouble or unable to feed his kids if his benefits are stopped.

Overall I don't like the idea of being spiteful to a woman who has done you no wrong just because you have a grudge against an ex. The ex seems like a complete waste of space but the girlfriend is a total stranger to her and has never done her any harm (and wasn't an OW)

I know benefit fraud is completely unacceptable but there's nothing to say it's even happening. Even if it was she has reported for the wrong reasons.

Do you think I'm being unreasonable for being against what she's done? If your friend told you this what would your reaction be?

OP posts:
thereisnorightanswer · 01/08/2023 22:30

It doesn't sound as if she has a reasonable suspicion of benefit fraud and has just made a report to be spiteful. On that basis... I wouldn't want to be friends with her either.

As with most things in life, intention means a great deal. She wasn't intending to do her civic duty... she was trying to cause trouble for another person for petty reasons. Not really someone I would want in my life.

AllAnusMorisette · 01/08/2023 22:33

Please outline where I have ranted about how awful benefit claimants are. I am a claimant myself. I have spoken to more than my fair share of claimants who have been wrongly accused of fraud, I have seen so many people reduced to tears over malicious allegations. I have also never set myself up as the one true authority, I just posted what I know, if people choose to disbelieve me thats up to them.

All I did was clarify you saying that benefits WILL be stopped, and making the distinction between it actually saying MAY be stopped, quite a big distinction to make.

RosaCaramella · 01/08/2023 22:34

Your friend should mind her own business. What a lowlife.

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 22:38

All I did was clarify you saying that benefits WILL be stopped, and making the distinction between it actually saying MAY be stopped, quite a big distinction to make.

No. That is the exact opposite of what you said:

"they are never stopped during investigations"
"they are only stopped if someone is found to be doing something fraudulent"
"I have NEVER known someones claim to be stopped while an investigation has been ongoing."

It's really quite shocking how often you're busted for telling lies, yet keep coming back.

According to CAB, official government policy in the case of PIP is that benefits are automatically stopped when an investigation begins, and if the person is found innocent, they receive backdated benefits to cover the period of the investigation when their benefits were stopped.

So either CAB are just weirdly making up deranged lies for no reason, or your claim that benefits are "NEVER" stopped during an investigation, is a lie.

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 22:39

All I did was clarify you saying that benefits WILL be stopped

Please point to the post where I claimed benefits "WILL" be stopped, because that is a blatant, blatant fucking lie.

PUER125 · 01/08/2023 22:41

I was a Benefit Fraud Investigator for nearly twenty years before I retired and can state quite categorically, that benefit is not stopped whilst an allegation is investigated. It is only when irrefutable evidence is received, in cases where excess savings are held, or proof of current undeclared income is received, that benefit would be stopped prior to the claimant being interviewed.
In other investigations, the claimant would be interviewed, possibly under caution, and all the evidence, including the claimant's explanation at the interview, would be sent to a Decision Maker
It is not the role of the Investigator to decide benefit entitlement; they gather information so the Decision Maker can decide whether a claim is correct.

Missingmyusername · 01/08/2023 22:41

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 21:56

The amount of people who think it's okay to steal OUR MONEY by maliciously reporting anyone they happen to dislike for benefit fraud is astonishing.

Do you have any idea how much money is lost every year investigating the 89% of benefit fraud allegations that are found to be false/malicious?

The benefits reporting system is not your plaything.

Hardly any. Our LA spends £3k a year. You need solid facts to investigate, estimated overpayment, names, dob, ni, employer details. All of which can be obtained easily and surprisingly quickly by machines/automation and data matching.

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 22:49

Goodness me, isn't is extraordinary how many benefits assessors who all claim that the official information on the official gov.uk is wrong, that the information given out by the Citizens Advice Bureau is all wrong and lies, that all the people sharing their personal experiences are liars... in fact everyone but them are liars, and we should definitely definitely take their word over the multiple official sources that contradict them... just happen to be online at 11pm and all posting within minutes of each other?

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 22:50

Still waiting for "AllAnusMorisette" to point out where I said "benefits WILL be stopped during an investigation" and to apologise for making up lies about me, btw.

If she ever returns to the thread...

uncomfortablydumb53 · 01/08/2023 22:51

YANBU
I think it's a spiteful thing to do, without absolute proof

Emz6103 · 01/08/2023 22:58

Exactly!! Lol this whole thread is full of women calling this woman a spiteful, vengeful, nasty bitch, stay well clear, wouldn't be her friend anymore etc......pot calling the kettle!!! All this nasty name calling for a womañ they don't know, don't know any of the circumstances, this benefit woman might be claiming £1000 rent allowance, paying £100 a year council tax, claiming £180 child benefit free school meals etc whilst boyfriend lives in for free on a full time wage.......who knows. All I see is woman here slagging off someone they don't have a clue about. It's quite bizarre.

Emz6103 · 01/08/2023 23:00

Grow up

Fallenangelofthenorth · 01/08/2023 23:05

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 21:47

not work-shy chancers
Here we go. MN vociferously comes to the defence of benefits cheats. In MN land, being a benefits cheat is akin to a badge of honour.

If the government stopped investigating benefit fraud allegations, it would save the country millions.

Facts. Not emotion.

The idea that Britain is being held hostage by "work-shy chancers" fiddling benefits is an emotional response brought about by having been manipulated by the government and the media, not a response based on fact.

And if it comes to that, the biggest form of fraud the UK government has to deal with is by far tax fraud, and mainly tax fraud by large corporations. But those corporations often have backroom deals with individual politicians, so they get away with essentially scamming and stealing from our country.

The amount of money we lose in benefit fraud is change down the back of the sofa compared to the literal billions of pounds stolen from us in unpaid corporate taxes.

Typical Britain. Steal a billion pounds from Britain and you can get away scot-free as long as you bung your MP mate a few thousand.

But if you have bone cancer or a serious chronic illness and you put down that on a bad day you can't walk 50 yards (because common advice is to put down your symptoms on a bad day), then someone spots you walking - maybe it's a special occasion and you really pushed yourself to walk, knowing you'd be in bed for two days, or you just happened to be having a good pain day - and you'll get investigated and demonised for it, all for the princely sum of £26.90 a week.

And people still insist it's the person receiving £26.90 per week because they put down their symptoms on a bad day who are the problem.

There can only be one explanation. Those defending it so vehemently are at it themselves.

I've never been on benefits in my life.

Exactly!

All these people who say "I'm doing it as a hard working tax payer to save the country money" - if you care so much about saving the country money, then you'd save far more money by NOT reporting it!

I wish these people would just own it and admit they are thick Daily Mail readers motivated by spite.

And no I don't claim any benefits whatsoever so I'm not "in on it" either.

Liv999 · 01/08/2023 23:08

Doingtheboxerbeat · 01/08/2023 19:58

I agree op, because in my opinion it's usually out of spite that people report others and not out of civic duty. Most people on here will disagree with me though.

I totally agree with you

Indigotree · 01/08/2023 23:10

Emz6103 · 01/08/2023 22:58

Exactly!! Lol this whole thread is full of women calling this woman a spiteful, vengeful, nasty bitch, stay well clear, wouldn't be her friend anymore etc......pot calling the kettle!!! All this nasty name calling for a womañ they don't know, don't know any of the circumstances, this benefit woman might be claiming £1000 rent allowance, paying £100 a year council tax, claiming £180 child benefit free school meals etc whilst boyfriend lives in for free on a full time wage.......who knows. All I see is woman here slagging off someone they don't have a clue about. It's quite bizarre.

If that were the case, the boyfriend would be the one benefiting from the situation as he'd be getting all that without contributing a penny...yet in UK law it's the woman having to claim benefits who is criminalised, rather than the boyfriend who is using her.

Emz6103 · 01/08/2023 23:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Twillow · 01/08/2023 23:13

Depends whether she has genuine suspicions or is being vexatious.
I hate this culture where people think it's 'grassing' to report genuine fraud which is actual theft from the rest of us taxpayers.

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 23:21

the disabled spots are full to the brim with new cars......yet you NEVER see anyone disabled in the shop!!

If the cars don't have Blue Badges then report them.

If they do have Blue Badges, please understand that many disabilities are not visible; that people with invisible disabilities, chronic and terminal illnesses, and non-static disabilities exist; and that ableist stereotypes (like the assumption that only wheelchair users/visibly disabled people are disabled, or the assumption that disabled people are all benefits fiddlers) place disabled people in actual danger, as disability hate crimes are at an all time high right now, and that disabled people are significantly more likely to be assaulted than non-disabled people.

Talk to any Blue Badge user with an invisible disability, random strangers confronting you to accuse you of fraud just because you don't fit their image of what a disabled person looks like (ie in a wheelchair) is practically a daily occurrence.

Indigotree · 01/08/2023 23:23

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 21:22

I actually wrote a newspaper article on this last year.

The government release statistics detailing the finances surrounding benefit fraud.

First, the amount of disability benefit fraud is negligible (you don't say what kind of benefit fraud she has reported, but cases like this usually are disability benefit - certainly Mumsnet is very keen on "disabled people committing benefit fraud" threads), yet disability benefit fraud receives an amount of attention that is hugely disproportionate.

The largest percentage of benefits fraud is actually pension fraud (meaning, people of pension age who lie about their personal circumstances to receive more state pension than they are entitled to), but you never hear a word about pensioners defrauding the state, you'd certainly never see a BBC TV show where a TV presenter goes around confronting elderly people who are stealing from the government by fiddling their pensions, even though pension fraud is eight times higher than DSA fraud.

Why? Because pensioners have the highest voter turnout, and no political party wants to risk pissing them off. So pension fraud continues, while disabled people are demonised.

Second, something like 89% of all reports of benefit fraud are found to be fraudulent and/or malicious reports. Ie the person claiming benefits is not committing any fraud, the person who reported them was either deliberately lying out of malice, or ignorantly assumed they weren't entitled to benefits due to stuff like "I saw my neighbour gardening once so they clearly must be pretending to be disabled to scam benefits" without realising the neighbour has a terminal diagnosis.

I don't have the exact stats to hand, but the government spends significantly more money investigating claims of benefit fraud, than they recover from genuine cases of benefit fraud.

People maliciously reporting people they dislike for benefit fraud costs our country millions.

If the government stopped investigating benefit fraud entirely, it would actually save the government money. That would never happen, because benefits claimants are a useful scapegoat who the government and the media have demonised to the point most people are extremely surprised to learn that disability benefit fraud is so extremely low, and that most allegations of benefit fraud are found to be false.

This. And the amount of money NOT paid by the DWP to people who are entitled to benefits is higher than the amount lost in fraud, the last I looked into these figures (volunteered as an advocate some years ago), so it evens out. Benefits fraud is a complete non-issue except in its use for scapegoating, divide and rule tactics and demonisation of the less well off.

Indigotree · 01/08/2023 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Parking in the wrong parking space, while unfair on people who need that space, is not benefits fraud.

MouseMinge · 01/08/2023 23:26

It is a horrible and spiteful thing to do. It is literally none of her business and she doesn't know anything, she doesn't care, she just wants to hurt the woman, her children and her ex. I wouldn't want to be friends with a person like that. I can't believe that anyone thinks you're being unreasonable.

Emz6103 · 01/08/2023 23:36

Meanwhile over on the other thread a woman thinks her x partner is committing benefit fraud......OH that's a different story......!! Oh he definitely needs reporting!! MN full of nasty spiteful Hippocrates! If she does it it's fine but if he does it out come the pitchforks

SkylarSpirit · 01/08/2023 23:49

There's quite a big difference between "I have reason to believe the person I shared my life with is committing benefit fraud" and "I've reported a total stranger whose name I don't even know because I'm jealous she's fucking my ex-husband, despite not knowing if she's receiving benefits or not."

OP's friend didn't even know the name of the woman she wanted to report until she searched for it, and she admits she has no idea if the woman is even on benefits or not.

Piggyplate · 02/08/2023 00:06

If it all gets sorted out though friend will lose money too. Her ex will support the gf while being investigated. Then if they declare that they are living together Her payments go down due to her kids. Maybe that's why her payments are so low anyways if he's already moved in.

greenthumb13 · 02/08/2023 00:23

What a terrible person. Drop her asap