Mainstream or special school for ASD child?

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My son is 3 & a half and we are awaiting a formal ASD diagnosis - it has been suggested that he is at the what was formerly known as Asperger’s end of the spectrum (sorry I have no idea what any of the correct terms are, still learning, trying my best not to offend anyone) with probable ADHD.
To summarise he is very bright particularly around numbers and letters, very loving and affectionate, loves being around other people but has real social communication issues so although he is verbal and able to answer closed questions and make statements, he cannot maintain back and forth conversations. He struggles to follow instructions and is very impulsive. I am still trying desperately to toilet train him but seem to be getting absolutely nowhere with it. No issues as yet with noise/lights/sensory issues. He can have huge meltdowns when tired or when something triggers him.
He is due to start school next year. The EHCP request has already been submitted, obviously yet to have the assessment and have it all agreed and ironed out. My question is, is
anyone with ASD experience able to advise whether mainstream or specialist school provision is most suitable for a child who presents as my son does? SEN Advisor who visited him said he is very bright and would ideally go to mainstream but his reduced attention span/ability to sit still etc means she isn’t sure. He has a year to go until school but that will go fast and obviously not actually that long until I need to start making applications.
Any advice or pointers gratefully received.
I am in such a low place with all of this at the moment. Worrying how life will be for him and desperately don’t want to make the wrong decision for him.

The extreme option, that you may want to consider esp. for secondary is looking at moving to an area with schools for autism that either are designed for or have the capacity to offer a normal academic curriculum. These are often special free schools so need to be named on an EHCP.

That’s what’s we need more of!

when I was looking at options for DS within a 40 minute drive we have one independent specialist school which offers some GCSE provision. It is vastly over subscribed and pretty much impossible to get a place at without battle. Personally I wasn’t keen on it when I visited it and it would have been sensory hell for DS too!

so many children are left to slip through the cracks because they fall into the gap between most specialist schools and mainstream.

i have fallen exceptionally lucky with ds that both his MS primary and secondary have very good SEN provision. That with the fact I fought for a water tight ehcp mean he is thriving at school at the moment. Many aren’t as lucky.

ds is going into year 9. He has full 1-1, from next year we are dropping a few subjects to allow more time for interventions as needed and to allow him to just have time to hide with a book or whatever is needed to regulate. He has unrestricted access to learning support department if needed and spends dinner and break with a small group of similar pupils rather than being out with everyone else. I don’t think he has ever set foot in the dinner hall!

a big part of the problem with the system overall is there aren’t enough options and too often they are generalised rather than personalised.

I have two children with ASD, the eldest was and is very much like you’ve described your son. He’s had a very wobbly time at primary - the biggest issue is that having intelligence/no learning disability means there is a higher expectation to be able to cope/less understanding of behavioural issues. Mainstream is all about reaching academic targets (and this gets worse when moving on to secondary) so even whatever little support they get emotionally or socially is all based on the target of ‘make sure they’re attendance is good and reaching average on grades’.

I would certainly consider a SEN school for my son, one that follows a mainstream curriculum. However, the issue is space. In my area you need an EHCP (and some places a diagnosis as well) and they take years to get sorted. Then you have to fight and prove your child needs that space more than another child with SEN. My younger son has ASD with global delays, cognitively still the 2 year old he stopped developing at. He’s still not considered severe enough SEN to need specialist school at the moment, there are other children will additional needs who meet the criteria over him.

If you have a good EHCP you can name the school that best meets your child's needs. The key will be getting this in place in time for next September.

Do bear in mind that the council will often want the cheapest option for them and you will have to really fight in many cases to get an EHCP, let alone one which actually meets your child's needs.

The council will likely be very keen for your child to start in mainstream to see how he "copes" - I would be wary of this. In my opinion, not coping at school can be really damaging for everyone.

I would try to talk to all local primary schools to see if you can find one which would be a good fit. A school with a "base" attached is often a really good option and it'll likely be easier to transition between the two than between two different schools.

I would be seriously worried about funding in mainstream

This. In my 20 years as a mainstream primary teacher I have never known SEND support to be so little. Any sort of expertise - specialist teachers etc - have to be bought in now and many schools can't afford to do it. It also means only the most seriously in need children get full time 1:1 support - in my school it's only the children who will literally run off and be in danger. Not all children with an EHCP get 1:1 support. If you are successful in getting an EHCP check the wording very carefully and also be prepared to push both the school and the Local Authority for full funding.

There is also a crisis in recruiting TAs in much of the country so even if your DC is supposed to get 1:1 support there may not be anyone available to give that support and if there is, that person may not have any experience.

There's a funding crisis for special schools too which limits places so it is better to decide earlier if you want to go down that route.

100% agree with this. In my school there are no one to ones now. The money is ‘devolved’ into the budget and there are just class TAs, which as you can imagine, is a nightmare!!!
honestly op , if you have the chance to send your child to a ‘special school’ or mainstream, I’d go the former. As the quoted post says, we can’t get hold of and keep any good TAs. We have day to day supplies who are rubbish at best!

My son is 8, about to go into year 4. Diagnosis of ASD. At the age your son is, he definitely looked like he would need a special school. His expressive and receptive language was severely delayed, he wasn't toilet trained, the meltdowns were intense and frequent.

He made so much progress in the following year. I really struggled when it came to choosing a school. I work in an independent specialist school for children with autism, and we get a lot of kids who have been badly let down by local mainstream primaries. I discounted these schools. I then visited the remaining two options. One said they would "struggle with his non-compliance". The other school is where he now goes. They have been nothing short of amazing with him. He's not made to be a square peg in a round hole. They embrace and adapt to his differences. He's extremely bright, with a real aptitude for numbers. His teachers have all fallen for his charms 😂

Anyway, my long, rambling point is, I never would have believed in mainstream being the best option for children with autism, based on my own experience. However, it's turned out to be absolutely the right thing for my son. I keep a close eye on things, and suspect he may need something different for high school, but right now it's fantastic. I'd really recommend visiting schools, getting a feel for them, talk to the head/sendco.

Good luck!

He doesn't sound dissimilar to DS at that age tbh and he's in a small mainstream. Means I see the SENCO on the school gate daily, the head and deputy head knows all the kids, he knows his teachers generally before they move up and vice versa, no swapping around of classrooms so it's fairly stable. He's achieving average which is great, school have come to understand he's not being dramatic he's just very reactive, he's finally had an inclusion plan done for start of yr 4 due to processing speed. Autism diagnosis is v recent but it was clear he wasn't exactly NT and he has a complicated medical history which confuses matters.

OP, I would suggest you go and look at the COIN and its school in September. If you like it, I would try to get that named when your EHCP comes through. Your DS will qualify for transport to it, although I appreciate you might not want to put him in a taxi until he is a bit older.

The benefit is that, if he doesn't need to be, he doesn't have to be in the COIN environment at all. He could be in mainstream full time but with the COIN in the background supporting his M/S staff. Conversely, if M/S is hard, he can be in the COIN most of the time. I find that need for the COIN fluctuates over time, often mostly COIN at first, then lots of M/S, then back to COIN more during Y6 when it all gets a bit hot and heavy around SATs.

MY high functioning ASD child has done well in mainstream, they are a very inclusive school. The trouble with specialist provision is teaching of social skills for the real world, when you are surrounded by individuals with ASD. Individuals at the high functioning end can be taught social norms and learn how to del with others, including negative behaviour and I've seen growing confidence to be oneself in society rather than away from society in a specialist provision which is great for individuals with more severe ASD.

@coastergirl "The other school is where he now goes. They have been nothing short of amazing with him. He's not made to be a square peg in a round hole. They embrace and adapt to his differences. He's extremely bright, with a real aptitude for numbers. His teachers have all fallen for his charms 😂"

Totally, I know exactly what you mean. Better able to go out in the real world later then.

I’ve taught ASD kids in mainstream. They all struggle in some way. Even high functioning ones.

My 9 year old Autistic DD is thriving in mainstream, as are many Autistic teens in the mainstream secondary and Sixth Form where I work. I don't know what the schools are like near the OP but there are mainstream schools out there that are very inclusive and strive to create flexible and nurturing environments for children and young people with SEND.

They aren't away from society. What an odd thing to say, and backwards way of thinking.

All the ones I viewed have specific outreach schemes where they go out into the community for various things.

You have an inclusive school. You are lucky. That is a privilege not afforded to everybody.

My DS has ASD/ADHD and went to mainstream primary - it was ok but not quite the right fit for him. He didn’t fit into any of the LA special schools as he doesn’t have general learning difficulties or SEMH (other than those caused by school). Your DS is likely to fall between LA provision types too.
DS is at an independent specialist school where the students have a variety of needs but all have a specific learning difficulty (dyslexia in most cases). It’s a really good fit for him.
Look at independent providers within 45 mins of where you live, you can widen the catchment area for secondary school.

There's a lot of 'high functioning' chat on here as if that somehow makes their autism 'better' or 'easier' (like the person below saying their high functioning child does well in mainstream to teach them to function in socially better and SS are better for more severe cases) - which is ableist bollocks.

High functioning usually means the impact of a persons autism to a neurotypical person isn't so bad (making it all about the NT people as usual). The individual with autism is struggling no less that a 'low functioning' autistic (ghastly terminology that needs to be outlawed) they can just mask more and end up with worse mental health.

@ballsdeep 100% agree with this. In my school there are no one to ones now. The money is ‘devolved’ into the budget and there are just class TAs, which as you can imagine, is a nightmare!!! this is illegal so if it’s happening at your school and your child’s funding is being used as the common pot, I’d contact the LA

Sounds so much like my son! His speech if anything was slightly behind yours. He has just finished reception and absolutely loved it. School have been brilliant with him so I think as long as you choose the right school mainstream will be fine.
Regarding toilet training my son also struggled and we used a timer that went off every 20 mins and he had to go to the loo whenever the timer went off. School got the same timer as nursery and we had at home for consitancy and the time was slowly increased and now he is completely out of nappies. Good luck.

I have a DD with ASD and a DS with (suspected and undiagnosed ADHD).

DD was non-verbal and in nappies until 8. Her experience at mainstream was poor. We didn’t get the option of a special school as her IQ was deemed too high - the local schools only have room for students with profound disabilities who can’t be educated at mainstream.

After a bullying incident I pulled DD out and we turned to private schools in desperation. As she was academic they were all willing to help but our local one provided support that went above and beyond anything I could have expected. The school gave her a bursery worth 110% + the amount agreed inthe echp (they have a policy whereby they fund ‘high potential’ disabled students entirely, no funding required from outside). She has been there ever since, does well, passed her 11+ entrance exam, and is playing sports / has friends.

With DS we are paying in full to send him but class sizes have increased (from 10-12 in preschool rising to 28) with DD (to 14-16 rising to 30) with DS so the benefits might not be as clear cut for him. But I think if we do need to look for different schools for him it would be another private.

Sorry for not knowing this, but there have been a lot of suggestions of looking into private schools - we could never afford the fees for a private school - is there some sort of private school funding for autistic children that I haven’t found out about yet? Thankyou again for all the replies xx

Not that I’m aware of, but some children with EHCPs get funded places at mainstream private schools, but the LA will try to fight against that because of the cost.

If an independent school is named in the EHCP the LA will fund it - it often requires the parents to appeal the EHCP but worth it.
DSs EHCP funds his independent school fees, weekly OT and S&LT.
The independent school doesn’t need to be a specialist one, you may find that a local mainstream independent is the nearest suitable school and get the funded via the EHCP.

I'd only put an ASD child in mainstream again if I really hated that child and wanted to punish them by ruining their entire life.

Don't believe a word of what the LEA SEN advisor tells you. I know one (socially - via the parental waiting room of childhood activities) and I've overheard her answering her work phone and the stuff that is pedalled in our LEA is absolute legally-shady fucking bullshit. They've also been caught out telling new school governors in training that "our policy is that we do not issue EHCPs in this county" - unfortunately they tried that one on a session where they had a senior psychologist and me as new governors and things went mildly thermonuclear.

What the answer is will depend on what else is around locally OP. DD2 is autistic, dyspraxic, probable inattentive-ADHD (on that set of appointments at the moment), had a severe speech delay in terms of expressive language but very very good receptive language... and is academically fucking sharp as a pin. Because of all that - we have the square root of fuck all chance of getting an EHCP at the moment (I'm considering a parental request for assessment once the ADHD stuff is sorted and diagnosis confirmed). I don't think she'd fit well within special ed around here anyway - I've been into a lot of the local special schools and the level they have the curriculum at is way below the level she's working at.

We've had difficulties tracking down the "right" school for her - she still had severe continence issues with soiling until around age 7 (so... much... shit) and our original "MN approved send them to the local school" primary would have been an utter and unmitigated disaster for us (confirmed off the record by the local continence nurse when we were discussing it). We managed to get into an out of catchment infants with the world's most utterly epic SENCO (I would seriously steal this woman and keep her forever if I could) - but the attached juniors was horrendous for SEN provision, and the parents by then had decided to turn against the kids they felt were "odd" - so we ended up having a totally lost year in year 3 where the class teacher shoved DD in the back corner so she didn't have to deal with her much basically and bullying went off the scale. Ended up with a school move to a very small primary school (15 per year group) with a more nurturing feel and again, a SENCO who will engage with parents and listen to them (without just giving into demands) and is very very on it in terms of things. It's not been without issues - but academically the impact of the lost year in the shit juniors has been mainly caught up and she's holding her own.

I've got two close in age, so we've already done one set of secondary school tours - but I'm very wary of the reps of the local secondaries in terms of who is good and shit for SEND. Our local "outstanding" secondary is one that has a huge reputation for bullying and focusing in on the high fliers academically - and is a definitely no for us (would also put us back with the kids who were bullying her previously). At the moment we've got the secondary in mind her sibling's gone to where the SENCO comes across as approachable, works closely with the current primary SENCO and there's a resource base for kids to go to if they're finding break times and those unstructured times of the day hard to navigate (which is the bits DD2 struggles with). Staff turnover figures are lower than at most of the other local secondaries which is another thing I've looked for - I've not looked at Ousted much because it's not like for like around here at the moment as they're currently running through the local area schools so some have old ratings on old frameworks and some have new ratings on a totally different framework. It's a fucking nightmare - I've found periodically I've needed to pay out to get updated assessments of things like communication and OT to reinforce the fact that DD2 masks and compensates for things like buggery but that she has some really marked difficulties she works her arse off to get the results she does despite this (and it's bloody painful paying out stupid money for a SALT report when you're a SALT yourself!)

I have a DD14 with ASD and ADHD (she takes medication on school days)

I mainstreamed her for primary but if I had my choice again I would have gone private prep school.

She is in a private all girls school now.

The main reason I say this is because of class sizes and noise. She found large school/class overwhelming. Full meltdowns at home.

In her current school she is thriving. It's small, two classrooms a year and 12 per class.

What this boils down to is your child, what is right for them. There is no one right answer.

DD was fine until about year 4 in primary then it really started to hit home that a smaller school would have been better.