Aibu 6.20am train for a meeting

[Chantholtmouse]

Is it unreasonable of my workplace to expect me to get a 6.20am train to attend work meetings and training 300 miles away? I absolutely don't mind attending but a 6.20am train seems unreasonable. It's the only one that would get me there in time. I'd have to be up at 4.45am to quickly shower, dress, walk the dog around the block (I also have to find someone to pick him up) and drive to the train station which isn't that close.

It's then 3 full days of meetings and training which I'll be shattered for. I'll get a bit of time back but it still seems a big ask. There's no option for paid accomodation to stay the night before.

Aibu?

When I fly on business I’m often up at stupid o’clock in the morning to catch a plane and get back late at night or over a weekend, it’s part and parcel of having a career I think. If it’s a complete one off then I really cannot see any issue.

It’s not a one off and with the salary OP receives I’d say it’s a job rather than a career.

No company I have ever worked for would expect me to do a 300 mile commute without accommodation the night before.

It's pretty mean, and I'd be looking for a new job if I was expected to do this on the regular.

My employer absolutely would pay for accommodation the night before in these circumstances. Also, I'd be flying if that was a convenient option, rather than spending 4 or so hours on a train.

And I don't have days off either so I don't know where that comment came from. I haven't had a day off in years.

I find this more concerning than the travel bit. Is this in the UK? Through personal choice? You are entitled to annual leave, by law. Take it!

This all sounds like the sort of nonsense I used to put up with as a young grad, but not in my 40s and not after 5 years in the same job with nothing to show for it.

I would be telling them: no I am not going to your stupid event. I will continue to work my contracted hours in my contracted place of work. Also I will be taking my full annual leave entitlement starting right now.

Join a trade union.

Public get hugely inflated pensions and flexi time, private dont

Plus my salary in private is equal I'd not less than similar roles in public. People need to stop thinking there's a money tree in private, just cos companies make millions doesn't mean they pass that down, there are always shareholders with their hands out

Where are these £90 hotels?
In London currently the basic hotels near my office are £200+ if not 3-400 where at the beginning of the year they were £100-£150

Fair enough - thank you.

I got the impression that OP was asking if it was unreasonable to be asked to spend 2/3 hours travelling when she wouldn’t usually be at work whereas it seems a lot of posters are saying it is a reasonable start time and quoting their commutes.

I didn’t think it was about commutes though, generally we factor in what we personally feel is an acceptable daily commute, be it a daily 6am train or a 20 minute walk, into our choice of work. This is about extra working time no?

Personally I swapped from shifts to weekday 9-5 when my kids started school, whilst I would do it, I’d still be an little annoyed if I was asked to work a weekend or evening now!

What if you have a second job?

Also, to all those who can happily get 3.30am flights, late finishes etc.
Is it really that easy for you to catch up on sleep?

Changing my sleep schedule by 2 or so hours on 1 day leaves me reeling for weeks, to the extent I’ve stopped holidays abroad, nights out etc.
Guess I’m doing something wrong!

whilst I would do it, I’d still be an little annoyed if I was asked to work a weekend or evening now!

Many many jobs require such flexibility & is usually covered by a catch-all phrase in employees' contracts (eg 'as required by the employer' or 'at the direction of the [head of organisation]')

In my workplace (academic), which is very much a standard working hours for most staff, they will be required to work some evenings / weekends - we can usually manage this on request, rather than mandating certain people do it, but everyone takes their turn.

It's a very normal part of many workplaces.

I'd just pay for my own accommodation the night before I think. Or can you demonstrate to them it'll save them on rail tickets if they send you up night before

This makes me laugh.
All those people working shifts that you will rely on.
Maybe next time you call an ambulance/police out at night, or need to go to ED at 3am, get a night flight somewhere etc you will have a little thought for those shift workers. How do you think they manage regularly shifting their body clocks by many, many hours and often for not massive wages.

It makes you laugh that I can’t go on ‘proper’ holidays or socialise because it would take me weeks to recover?

I have a lot of empathy for everyone in emergency services, travel, logistics, hospitality, events industries. For a decade I was one of them, working in environments needing 24/7 cover, plenty of on call shifts, dealing with critical situations - when something goes wrong your shift doesn’t stop. I miss it massively, the adrenaline of dealing with the unexpected, the camaraderie you build is incomparable. And yes you do it for the love of it not the money!!

I’m only late 30s but assumed it was age and young kids that stopped me coping and that the few Mums that have stayed in my industry must be somehow coping with a constant brain fog, nausea, aches, hang over type feeling each day - this thread doesn’t seem that way, it implies that most people can easily shake off getting up or going to bed 3 hours earlier / later than usual - so what am I doing wrong?

Please don’t get me wrong, whilst I miss my career, I am grateful that my skills allowed me to transfer successfully to a 9-5 role that I enjoy, and gives me time with DC. The very odd time I need to work significantly later or earlier I do it, however I’ve learnt the hard way in the last few years that 16 hour shifts are not safe for me any more or productive for my company. If I need to advocate that I can and they would accommodate. It’s the kind of company that truly encourage a work/life balance rather than it being all talk.

If anything, having kids made it easier for me to adjust to getting up earlier or going to bed later.

I'd say if you feel that bad you must have a medical reason.

For the majority, getting up a bit earlier in the morning is going to do nothing more than making you feel a bit tired.

The 6.20 train isn't that unreasonable. Previously you would even get time back for travel but now my company is better at that. But if you live that far from the train station....who is paying for parking if you are gone 3 days? And who is looking after the dog if you are the only one that can walk him?

But travelling the night before might mean not as early a start but you are away for longer and more issues?

Honestly I would be seeing your GP about this. I'm 35 with a two year old and no, I don't believe it's normal for a change in schedule to make you feel unwell like this, or to throw you out for days at a time x

Oh! Maybe?

I’ve had it from all angles that tiredness is part and parcel of having kids. I used to work 70+ hour weeks on shift patterns regularly pre kids with no issues.

Always thought other working Mums coped better with the ‘hungover-y-ness’. 🤷🏻‍♀️🙈

So a 6.20am train isn’t unreasonable for the majority then!!😂

Apologies @EarringsandLipstick by asked I meant rhetorically asked i.e. mandated.

My contract does have a “to meet business needs” clause. In reality though it is at my discretion, so if I want to do an evening networking event, team building, client meeting etc it would be my choice. The team is large enough for any training to be done in our contracted location. Equally if I ever ask any of my staff to do something outside of their normal hours I make it clear it is an option with no pressure to accept as I understand they have a life outside of work and that’s why they chose such a job too.

I know many, many jobs do require more flexibility than mine- good employers are honest about the true extent at interview stage IME. I hope your workplace was clear with you about the requirement for some evenings/weekends.

From the sound of it OP has also chosen her work based on it being set hours at one location because that works for her other commitments.

Bearing in mind salaries are often lower and roles limited because of the better work/life balance - you can’t have it all!

@dahliadream thanks for the advice. Certainly seems like it’s not the normal experience.

Eye opening thread - sorry for derailing OP.

No, I don't think it is. My little one isn't a very good sleeper and it's true that one the nights we have a lot of wakes I do feel really tired the next day, but I'd be back on track after another good sleep the next night. And if she sleeps well then a change in routine (e.g., needing to get up a couple of hours early) wouldn't phase me.

As an example we went on holiday earlier this year and all had to be up at 3am to catch our flight. I didn't get much sleep before 3am (too excited!) and whilst yes I was ready for bed nice and early that night, it didn't impact further than that whereas it sounds like it would have ruined your trip. I don't think I am unusual so would definitely get yourself checked out, it seems such a shame that you're missing out on things that you enjoy due to this xx

I hope your workplace was clear with you about the requirement for some evenings/weekends.

Honestly, we don't spell this out - it's pretty clear that at times we will need to deliver events / classes in the evening, or weekends, due to the nature of third level education.

We don't ever 'force' anyone to do it - reasonable employees are aware of the need for such approaches, and they are happy to take it in turns to deliver as needed.

we don't need to demand, or have it demanded of us. it's not an issue - it's a reasonable mature approach from both employee and employer, and like OP's employer, is an appropriate expectation.

Of course then employees are compensated with time-in-lieu as needed / based on their level.

That used to be pretty standard in my last role (trainer) and about once a fortnight

I'd network for an hour tops after dinner then make a polite excuse to get back to my room. You won't be the only one!

Wow that's very generous. And costly

I work in an exams office in a secondary school and during GCSES leave home just after 6.30 every am to be in for 7am.

And that's just a walk down the road.