20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

I was going to suggest exactly this. He’s had many chances. Nothing else is working. Zero tolerance now.

I know. God only knows why we bother with things like psychiatric hospitals, someone should tell those people that others manage just fine, imagine the money we would save on mental health services if only someone could spread the message that all you have to do is try harder and you will be grand.

I think a psychiatric assessment would be really important. Getting one via the NHS is very, very unlikely though.
OP, could you afford a private consultation?
I hate having to say that, but having worked in the NHS for decades and tried to get psychiatric help for my child, I know how difficult it is.

I spoke about my step son earlier, but when he had his psychotic break he had to go, even he understood that.

@TRexTara I suppose that depends what he did during the psychotic break. Where did he end up?

Changing the WI-FI password & those in the house NOT pulling their weight having to earn it back is much more helpful to all.
I’d have this man child out on his ear if he doesn’t buck his ideas up!

I am honestly shocked at the number of people who would throw out a 20 year old rather than help them.
Would you really be ok with one of your children living on the streets?

I was thinking this too. There is learned laziness & there is ADHD/ADD etc.
As someone who lives with & has family with ADHD the struggle to manage basic tasks can be very, very real but even I couldn’t live with foisty bedroom smell as I also have OCD 😬
My brother however lived in a bit of a hovel - tea/coffee stains all over walls but he has dyspraxia so his balance is terrible, rarely bathed as he never liked washing so that we now know was an anxiety thing, cigarette butts stacked in perfect spiral towers, cigarette ash piles everywhere, bedding rarely washed, he didn’t game but he read newspapers & books religiously & had date & size organised piles of newspapers everywhere as he couldn’t bring himself to throw them away & multiple books piled open as he would read 10+ at a time - but as much as the place was dirty it was also organised chaos.
It took many years but once he found his thing, working with statistics & numbers but unsociable hours because that is when
he is most productive, he flourished.
He now owns his own house, holds down an important job -since covid he works from home full time so that helps him a lot - & he is living his best life.
He still doesn’t really socialise but he has friends, he goes to the gym & he is doing well for himself. M
With the right support & direction those who function on a neurodivergent level can manage their lives but they will manage & live it quite differently to non-neurodivergent people.

It would take A LOT to get to that place but there comes a time when we all have to deal with consequences of our behaviour & to learn to stand on our own two feet 😬

How long would you put up with the family home being an unsafe, toxic environment because one person cares nothing for it or anyone in it; including themselves?

In OP’s case I do think there is a lot more going on than just the son being lazy & thankless BUT the son needs to engage to help themselves too.
The family need to find a way to work together & find common ground where everyone is heard, respected & supported within the household if the son is to stay.

The old saying that ‘you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink’ is quite apt here as OP seems to have done lots to help & support the son but is having everything thrown back in their face because in reality they can’t force the son to do anything but the son needs to do something to help themselves.

Hope that makes sense but I would indeed put him out on his ear if he carried on behaving like this & disrupting they whole household despite support & help.

I have actual experience of a behaviour eviction as my mum had to take my brother, he was 13, & leave him in the reception area of social services to get him help as no-one would listen to her while she was trying to get him help & raise the rest of us.
She did this unbelievably hard thing to safeguard the rest of her children & her own sanity but also to support her son & it hurt us all having to do that.
My brother has since thanked her for what she did & we have all laid the events to rest because in doing what she did he got the diagnoses & help he needed that when he was at home with us services would not provide or engage with despite him wanting help.

Why is he allowed headphones when he walks around ignoring you while wearing them. Take them off him and bin / sell / charity shop. Same with the games console & anything else that's stopping him from functioning normally. He doesn't deserve all this nice stuff.

@Grrrrdarling the same brother who stacked fag butts into perfect spiral towers?

Hope this makes sense as I have waffled on a bit & may have repeated myself but ADHD is a pig.

As someone with direct experience of our woefully inadequate, it isn’t the staff’s fault it is the fault of the system before anyone comes at me for beating down our amazing NHS staff, mental health services I think you will find the NHS’s inability to be proactive with many illnesses & the cost of drugs & equipment being ridiculously inflated is the reason for the service being so expensive to maintain.
Red tape on accessing care & treatment & time limits on how long trained staff can offer care & treatment causes so much more damage to people who are in recovery & those issues plus people relapsing due to inadequate initial help is what costs NHS mental health services billions every year.
So much money is wasted because people have to be seriously ill, have developed multiple issues because of that illness being left unchecked & have usually tried to commit suicide before any real help is accessible to them.
Even after the patient hits that low, low level the help is then ripped away before the patient is ready to manage on their own meaning they are more likely to relapse & need more money spent on helping them.
There is very little after care/community support to help survivors of & strugglers with mental health & other issues stay well/balanced & the system throws meds at everything then expects people to just ‘get better’ or become a normal functioning members of society.

The staff in our NHS mental health services are struggling to help people because their job, that they pay a lot to learn & train very hard for, is dictated by fat cats & big pharma wanting to constantly turn more & more profit!

NHS needs to be run by those who know what they are doing & as it was originally designed by Aueurin Bevan & that was to help make life better for those in need of it’s support not line the pockets of suppliers & big pharma.
If I could afford to I would pay for private treatment for my issues but being disabled & reliant on benefits, due to no fault of my own, I am not in a position to do that so I’m at the mercy of a broken NHS.

That is such a dreadfully uninformed attitude!

We had almost exactly this situation here- it is tough for all. I loved him but despaired if what he was becoming.

I think I have Jordan Peterson and his 12 rules to thank for getting us out. 🤷‍♀️

Peterson is not a feminist😁- not my choice of advisor! However it probably helped that I didn't really approve of his stuff.

My son lapped up all the things he said about masculinity and luckily this included some helpful advice.

The first sign of improvement was standing straighter... and then ordering a set of coat hangers !

He is a happy snd successful man now- just a few years later.

My MIL kicked my DH out when he was 21 and addicted and running up debt. It was the best thing for him. Now, at 55, he's had lifelong employment, raised 2 girls, is an equal partner at home and a lovely DH. He still has to to work hard every day to keep his addiction at bay, but he credits his DM for tough love that pushed him to fend for himself. You can't easily fund an addiction if you have to pay rent. We also live in the states where there are limited social services (which is wrong and ends up extra hard on those who truly need it, but for able bodied young men who don't need it...)

Most importantly for OP, DH deeply loves and respects his DM. He now treats her with the utmost respect. I think in part because she showed him at a young age she wouldn't be treated like shit. This has lasting generational impacts. DH's DF was an awful man but DH broke the mold. Our DDs have a good male role model now.

Kicking a grown intractable son out after years of support and help can be the most loving thing you do.

I meant more in terms of what they were allowed and able to do. My son didn't have an 18th birthday party, many kids missed their proms and birthday events, they couldn't learn to drive and are still struggling now, and they couldn't do the usual things sixth formers do.

So, they've spent time at uni catching up on what they would have done at sixth form and the growing up they would have done then. Which puts them back a couple of years.

I didn't realise people would take my comment as a scientific brain development one!

And yes, who knew that nobody needed mental health services, all they need to do is turn the WIFI off.

(heard of 4G?)

Sounds like he's depressed and having ago at him all the time will make things worse.
Whatever happened at UnI, could've really knocked his confidence
It's time for him to go to see a dr, his own choice obviously

YABU to not be giving him 3 months notice that he's moving out on his own.

There comes a time when some birds need kicked out of the nest or they'll never learn to fly, find there own food or be able to ever feather their own nest.

Reading you story l have concerns. Yes he is 20 yes old at this age its about negotiating and planning together, from personal experience this isn't easy. It does cause family stress. By what you've said l do feel maybe he wasn't ready for Uni....its not for everyone and sometimes young people get carried along with the peer group.

Perhaps doing volunteering with different organisations would help him find his place in life.
Our young people today do not follow in our/their parents footsteps nor do they take advice as wee did.
I listened to my parents however that not my experience as a parent. I've had to adapt and change which l dont always agree with but if l can see the logic and an end goal then l go for it.
Listening is a special skill many of us fail to fully use. Your son is many steps away from a career path or going forward....sometimes we need to revise past experiences to see what has happened.
Communication speaking and listening is the 1st step he is lost and needs you more now than he ever did..

From a parent of young adults...thinking of you and your family....and just remember they are not all the same..

Turning off WiFi works with a 5ish year old these days anyone older than 10 will make their phone the hotspot.since he is an adult I assume his phone contract is on his name as well

He sounds depressed, I'd advise medical help for you both

While I can totally understand you being at the end of your tether he sounds like he has had a MH breakdown. All the kick him out advice is great if you can live with yourself if he takes his own life which is an epidemic in that age group.
Very hard as to what to do step back and try talking try giving him the ultimatum and trying to put something in place for him to rebuild his life /self-esteem

I'm sorry you're going through this, it must be so hard to say your child show a lack of respect like this.

My brother lived with my Mum until a similar age. She put some things in place which included:

• He had to pay rent
• He has to come home at a reasonable hour and be up at a reasonable hour
• He had to respect the house and contribute to its upkeep (clean his room and the bathroom and kitchen after use)
• He had to be respectful of the family and be part of some family activities (takeaway on a weekend or watching a film together etc.)

If he wasn't happy with these things then he could move out. She gave him a reasonable deadline to get things together and move out by as an alternative. Couple of months really to find a job, pay deposit etc.

If he wants to live in the family home, he needs to be part of the family. He can't expect to live like he would on his own with none of the responsibility.

Another thing I would consider is if he's maybe depressed/smoking weed and offer him support for that too.

It is not unkind to put boundaries in place and in the future will actually serve him as a potential partner or housemate will not allow him to behave the way he is now either.

Good luck with setting those boundaries, you can do it.