20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

Tbh I think the crux of the matter is that lads like this don't become like this overnight.

The ground work needs laying for YEARS beforehand.

My children know I have expectations of them, just as my parents had for me. And we are not talking insane expectations either...I mean keeping a room reasonably clean and having a job are the barest of bare minimums.

I have not misunderstood your post whatsoever, yes you were originally replying to a PP denying delayed development, but you were also calling OP’s son a lazy, whinging, entitled brat and saying how it’s as if no one had problems before! So in other words, you were making out there was no evidence that lockdown had affected young people negatively, and that there was no excuse for his behaviour. You tried posting that study as evidence for your stance, and it didn’t work 🤣

Just like most on here, a vile attitude towards mental health.

I know it isn't always the explanation for everything....but....he definitely isn't Neurodivergent in any way? For many families it can fly under the radar for years.

Aside from that he sounds depressed. I'd try the soft, caring understanding approach. Why, what's going on, talk to me etc then take it from there.

How difficult for you and his father. You seem to have been very supportive and tolerant. However, it sounds as though he could be severely depressed. He’s displaying very abnormal, self destructive behaviour which can’t be making him happy or satisfied. I think your aim should be to get him to see his GP in the first instance.

I watched an American show where a family had the same issue. Dr. Phil told the parents to clear his room, leaving a bed and blanket. No luxuries, no gaming. He can earn these back IF he starts shaping up.

he could be depressed. Can you talk to him about that sort of thing? Give him a smaller goal, like 16-20 hours work and a small rent for him to pay.

Is he really just lazy or does he gas any other issues going on ? Depression? Mental health issues? It sounds like he’s living like a caveman so does this fall into self neglect? Just ideas to float into the mire.

You are not being unreasonable but I have to say that in my experience pushing our dear young adults has completely the reverse effect! Suggest you back off, provide food and shelter and wait for him to mature. It will definitely happen. Mine did. Might take a few months to a year or so. Important that the pressure is off and he is encouraged to pursue any interests he has, even computing, because this can lead to a job in the end. Don't try to rush the transition he needs to do it at his own pace and he is clearly not ready yet.

Crikey, me too.

What exactly is vicious about giving an adult man who’s behaving extremely poorly towards his entire family, a deadline to make changes? Be they seek medical help, get a job, return to study or move out and finally grow up and sort his shit out?

What would you expect the OP to do? Give him a cuddle, make him a sandwich and hand over a wodge of cash to make him feel better?! While he helps himself to food, stays up all night, destroys his room, refuses to work or contribute and wears headphones to avoid having to talk to anyone?!

He’s a freakin’ adult…

So glad some of you are not my MILs, with your man baby sons.

No, and if you think this then you’re ignorant. It’s not an either/ or scenario. She doesn’t have to mollycoddle him or be authoritarian. There’s a middle ground you know? It’s about working together to find practical solutions. If he’s really struggling then being strict and authoritarian won’t work at all, he will just resent his parents for not being there for him. The lad needs to know he is loved and appreciated and supported.

Being an adult is irrelevant.

I’m so grateful for my parents since reading this thread. The coldness is astounding. As is the fact that people take such a black and white view to things.

I agree, he sounds depressed and as frustrating and infuriating as his attitude is it may have a deeper cause

This all sounds slightly familiar to me! Many years ago when times were hard and it was a mega achievement to get accepted at University , I became very ill with sepsis and the powers that be were very unsympathetic and I got thrown out . My father was furious and blamed me . He told me to leave our home and I had to leave in the middle of the night after a terrible row and a friend took me in luckily . Her parents were wonderful and sympathetic. I didnt know what to do then as i hadnt got a job so in desperation I found a job abroad for a year and landed a good job on my return to England , I never went back to my home but rented a flat in London with 8 other people of different nationalities where I actually met my husband ! So never give up and get out of your parents home asap , which is what this young guy must do.

I agree these are the signs of a young man who ay have mental issues and possibly seriously depressed. I think he needs medical intervention.Possibly
he cannot feel he can speak to you about it. He is at a vulnerable age, keep an eye on him. Ie .. self harm etc.

Jesus wept, how wonderful it must be to be so absolutely bloody perfect. How sanctimonious, smug and self-satisfied you are. I have three children and two are lovely, very high achieving and contribute fully to society, one has massive difficulties .
So how does your perfect parenting theory explain that? You make make me sick.

@Dacadactyl I was brought up ok, it didn't stop me having rough times sometimes or not having the best functioning (when people's functioning is impaired, it usually includes housework, self-care etc. TBH I've never been the best at housework though.)

Having expectations of your children does not shield them from mental health breakdowns or protect them from setbacks.
You're just very lucky that it has worked out for your family.

And post after post from
people who are choosing to ignore everything the OP and her husband have already done to address the issues.

Did you even read the OP? It sounds like they’ve been traipsing up and down that middle ground for months and still this man treats them and their home badly and does nothing.

•His dad tried to support him into work and found him a job.

•They accepted he lied to them about his degree, and he’d just spent the year gaming.

•He contributes nothing, no effort nor money, to the running of the house.

•They took him on holiday abroad and he just wasted it asleep.

•They’ve tried to help him find appropriate work, and he’s failed to apply.

•Despite all this, his behaviour towards them has worsened.

So yeah, I do think after all their efforts, now is the time to give him a deadline and get serious. The handholding, the helping, the loving enabling is making no difference and he’s getting worse and more entitled.

@Feverly
'does each individual in a household have their own WiFi @MrTiddlesTheCat? I don’t understand your question.'

Our wifi has a password. If we didn't want someone to use it, we wouldn't give them the password, or we would change it. Does yours work differently?
And yes, everyone could have their own separate access via a dongle, smartphone hub etc.

Did you mean to aim that at me?

Some people are just determined to take offence. I'm not saying I'm a perfect parent and nor am I immune from MH difficulties.

I am saying that OP has tried the nicey nice approach and got nowhere. Maybe a tough love approach would work.

I stand by every word I've said, including my comprehensive and hopefully constructive and helpful post right near the start of this thread.

I'm not asking you to retract anything. I also stand by everything I said.

Uni didn't work out so has prob lost his confidence and focus on what he wants to do. If he likes gaming why not pay for him to do a course in coding or graphics etc so he can work in game design?

Ffs. This is very difficult, hard work and competitive and a lazy arse is unlikely to get anywhere in it.

Not to mention he shouldn't need his mother to structure a career for him. He's had the chance to go to university and chosen to drop out.

He sounds depressed to me. Lack of motivation, and interest in the world being signs. Was his room clean previously? I remember at one point when I was depressed, all I could focus on was phone games - it helped me block out everything else and cipd.

He’s probably depressed, scared for his future with uni not working out, and confused. Hard to see all your mates at uni or a job and knowing what they want to do. He immediately goes into a job that he dislikes.