20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

Some of the comments about this young man are hideous.

😂You’re VERY angry Jogon. I assume you’re raising one of these fine specimens yourself. You must be vair proud 😉

She's not angry at all, don't be daft. Your posts are really something else.

Let me guess-another progressive parent who funds an adult males every demand, lets him treat them like crap and expects the rest of society to deal with the fallout?

Haven't read the whole thread but I too would suggest depression. He may not raise that is what it is but the lack of motivation heavily suggests it.

My 18yo has diagnosed depression and takes meds for it. They are not as bad as your son, from the sound of it, but do have the difficulties in keeping their room tidy, making food for themselves etc. Their psychiatrist explained it as each little thing is an effort and depression can make a small task seem too much to manage, especially one that is not as motivating, like tidying. They let things slide and then the idea of dealing with it is far too overwhelming.

He should see a doctor in the first instance, if he will. I suggest you also need to step up to help him. Literally ask what you can do to help. Maybe he will let you help him clean his room. My child sometimes will, sometimes won't. Sometimes I do bits myself when they are out.

You also need to value what he has / can achieve to bolster him. So what that he is 20? There's a progession in growing up. 18 year olds are not suddenly high functioning mature adults. At 20, with mental health issues, he still needs your support (not that all 20 year olds do, but this one does.)

No. But then happily none of my children are depressed.

And yet here you are happily diagnosing a complete stranger on the internet 😉

Obviously he’s depressed. He’s failed uni and having to work crappy minimum wage jobs

What?! I think you’ve completely misunderstood my post. I wasn’t arguing that lockdown may have increased depression etc, I was literally asking about DELAYED development in teens.
Jesus, no need to be so fucking aggressive and sensitive.

What do you suggest?

As is his behaviour.

Depression or not, no diagnosis has been made apart from a few MN posters, there is simply no excuse for treating his family the way he is.

I suggest you read the OP again. It’s very common on these threads for people to lose sight of what the OP has actually posted.
But as an armchair psychiatrist and mental health expert perhaps you could share the assessment process and diagnostic criteria you have applied in this scenario? And please do share the therapeutic interventions you are prescribing?

Excuse me ?

I just hope OP doesn’t get too harsh on her son without first exploring reasons for his behaviour.

@JudgeRinderonTinder I agree.

You’re excused.
You said he’s ‘obviously depressed’ Please do share the diagnostic criteria you’ve used to diagnose him 🙂

It seems like the 'kick him out/remove his door' crowd think that being kind means letting him continue as he is. It really doesn't. Obviously an intervention is necessary and he must be required to change his habits. But this can be done with concern or with judgement. When we struggle, do we best respond to kind concern or to harsh criticism?

If he were my son, I'd require him to tidy his room, keep it tidy, do his laundry and clean the dishes he'd let fester, but I'd assume he was unable to do this easily as he'd failed to do it so far, so I'd break it all into easy stages. I'd require him to come to the GP for blood tests to see whether he has anaemia or Vit D deficiency or depression, to work out why he is so lethargic. I'd insist he exercise daily and if he hadn't already been to the gym or for a run, then that would be a 10k step evening walk with me before bed. I'd turn off wifi at night between midnight and 8am and I'd say that a condition of living at home would be to hand over his gaming gear, laptop and phone between those hours not as punishment but to help him kick the addiction. I'd insist he sat down and discussed his aims in life and help him make steps towards them.I'd be firm and insistent.

But none of this needs to be done aggressively or judgementally. Why choose those emotional states when you can help him change with love, patience and kindness?

As someone not from the UK this is a part of UK culture I find shocking. The throw them out if the going gets tough attitude. Where I am from this thread would have gone very differently. There would have been lots of talk of getting him private therapy/the different types of therapy, recommendations of therapists if needed, recommendations of various charities that help young people who are overwhelmed with life, talk of different courses etc he could do instead of uni, basically all the different things you can do to support him.

The callousness shown by parents if their children don't live up to their expectations and thrive straight away is mindblowing. Especially towards young men. Here people are very attuned to young men's mental health, vary aware of the suicide rates in young men(its the number 1 cause of death in men under 25).

I just find this thread really sad, the glee people are showing at being as rotten as they can towards a 20yr old. It's a sign of a society that is falling apart with no compassion left.

The problem with these threads is MN is a site full of mostly women. Most of whom have been at the receiving end of some entitled cock lodger at some point or at least have a friend or loved one who has experienced it. When these threads come on it brings out all the bitterness, disappointment, anger, and hatred towards a particular someone in their own lives but directed at an unknown person e.g OP's DS. All empathy flies out of the window and all some posters see is a red mist of all the hurt similar behaviors have caused them and project this onto the subject in the thread. Hence the harsh judgment of 'kick him out' kick him to the curb', let him go to a shelter' etc.

This doesn't at all mean if it were their son, that they would do the things they are advising @OP to do!
Frankly, I wouldn't take personal advice of this sort from the internet but would find someone in real life with whom you can discuss who can be more objective. As some posters have suggested e.g @DaisyThistle & @tidalway , I would start with the GP.

OP I’m going to blank out the cacophony of people lining up to tell you that it’s ok for this man to behave like this in your home.
It absolutely is not. If you were posting about a man in an intimate relationship you would probably receive a few suggestions that he was depressed or neuro diverse.
But more than likely you would also be told to LTB and that the behaviours your son is displaying including the anger, the demands for you to stop speaking to him and the financial abuse would be labelled for what they are.
OP this is not ok. You do not deserve to live like this.
Abusive partners and husbands are not tolerated on MN. But the abusive sons who go on to become those abusive partners and husbands are excused and mollycoddled and it becomes the mothers fault to fix them.
He needs strong ultimatums. And you need to have peace in your own home.

Oh, come on. Absolutely nobody thinks his behaviour is ok, some people are suggesting he needs help.

Oh how I wish there was a block feature on MN 😂

Yet you took the trouble to highlight my post instead of ignoring it. More fool you 🤷🏻‍♀️

😂

sounds Like he’s got some mental health issues going on there. It’s so hard when they’re young adults as you can’t make them do anything and they’re very good at hiding their feelings.
I have similarly aged DCs and while their bedrooms can be a disaster zone, it’s not to that level. The only time they’ve stayed in bed is when they’ve been depressed - in lockdown. It’s really a red flag for MH issues.