All old people should sell up family homes for families.

[benigogo]

Not really an AIBU, more a hypothetical question really. This view comes up a lot on MN, and I'm interested in the detail of what people actually imagine when they say it. What type of property should they be giving up? What type of property should they be moving to? How old is old? What about younger people who under occupy a property? For example 2 friend couples, have recently downsized. Both from a 4 bed detached, one to a 4 bed semi, and the other to a 3 bed semi. Their homes were bought, one by a young professional couple, and the other by a couple in their seventies, themselves downsizing. If you hold this view what do you visualise?

To downsize there needs to be attractive property to go to that is also suitable to grow older in. A starter home is often not suitable as an ender home.

That tends to mean mean more bungalows with reasonable gardens or more apartments with good onsite help, outdoor access to communal garden and reliable lifts etc. And that welcomes pets. Preferably in peaceful locations. Obviously, that's not everyone's preference but everyone I've know that has grown old independently tend to have done so in a single storey property in the end and has kept a small dog or cat for most that time. Those that haven't - it has been because they specifically did not want to leave the home they've raised their family in.

There absolutely isn’t. There is a surplus of large homes. What there is a shortage of is affordable homes.

Gosh: in your shoes I'd be really concerned that I didn't pass on my sense of defeatism and hopelessness to your daughter.

@Againstmachine , I don’t think it’s all that new. Building societies were started IIRC early in the 20thC - both my sets of grandparents bought their own homes in the 1920s. And no, they weren’t bloated plutocrats or anything like it - just very ordinary people in very ordinary jobs, and both houses - one a 3 bed semi in SE London, one a small bungalow in pretty rural Herts, were extremely modest.

My parents bought a nice 4 bed detatched house in a lovely area and they are perfectly content there. The fact it is 4 bed rooms is irrelevant to me they worked dam hard all their lives and paid for it and its their dream home in a good location.

If they want to live out the rest of their lives in it, its no body's bloody business.

My dear step father (early 70s) has discussed downsizing from his three bed family home for several years. This conversation however has been heavily influenced by his biological child & their spouse who want to upsize and expect him to fund it (he paid their initial house deposit), but just this week he has said he'd rather see out his days in his home.

He's getting frailer so I'm glad he won't have the additional stress of house buying and moving to deal with. It's been his home for the past 40 years and he shouldn't feel pressured into moving out. One day (hopefully not for a while 🙏) he will die and then it will become available for a family to buy.

@watersprites yes I am incredibly grateful I will one day inherit my parents house. Incredibly grateful and thankful.
They are off the era when they would have got a council house easily. My Dad grew up in one.
They chose to buy instead - only being able to because of some type of government scheme.
My generation have very little hope of a council house. I have had to privately rent all my adult life.
My grandparents council house was theirs until my Granny passed and Grampy went into a home. It went back into the council stock - but the next tenants bought it under right to buy as soon as they could. It was recently up for sale. At a crazy high price that an average wage family can only dream of.
Housing in this country sucks.

You could also use the same argument to say that houses are taken up by families who split up and each parent wanting a house big enough for the children to stay. Result - two family homes required for one family.

@Needmorelego of course but it's a crazy situation when potential inheritance is more important when it comes to owning a home than your salary.

This.

As I said, I don't think it should be enforced. But I do think that taxation should probably shift towards wealth, including that held in homes, which might help to encourage it.

I agree with this & something really needs to be done about wages

The way the property market works is that it is focused on profit.
Profit comes from people taking out mortgages.
Older, retired people don't take out big mortgages.
Therefore the property market tends to ignore them.
There's no investment made in nice, 2 bed bungalows with little gardens.

That sort of low density housing is much more costly to produce than 100 semi-Ds or terraced new builds aimed at couples with two incomes who will take out a 30yr mortgage.

The property market and developers wants these young couples who take out hefty mortgages.

Older people do not want to live in large apartment blocks with rowdy neighbours, lots of stairs and no garden.
There may be very little for them to downsize to in their locality.

@Pluvia oh f off. Tell me how someone on minimum wage can be able to afford to buy a house?
My daughter is autistic btw. Not relevant to this thread but her future is uncertain and will be hard and she will need a secure place to live. If my parents can provide that through passing their house to me, and me to her then we are very very lucky and it makes me less terrified for her future.

@Backtoreality1 People have lived through wars, recession etc throughout history and been resilient enough to move forward. So sick of the 'poor me' syndrome that seems so prevalent now.

The war is often cited by people whose parents were adults in it but were either not born or young children at the time. People who actually lived through it then went on to effect a huge housing boom because they all wanted a decent home to have a family in.

Poor me syndrome is a convenient way of dismissing the generational inequality that sees today's young people paying taxes to fund benefits for older people they won't ever have themselves, when those older people often have more disposable wealth than younger taxpayers (not just very young people, people in 30s/40s/50s who should be at peak earning).

That's not whinging, it's reality.

i live in a small road of about 20 houses, in a small rural town with very very limited social housing

most of these houses have been bought privately but about 5 or 6 are still council owned. they're typical sturdy, 3 good bedrooms, big garden types

every single one of the council owned ones are occupied by single older people. their gardens are too big for them to manage and they struggle with their heating bills (i know this, we chat, we're a close community)

i absolutely don't think they should be occupying these family homes that are desperately needed for the low paid local families, who are instead housed in the shoddily built 80s flats with storage heaters and no insulation. There should be some campaign to upgrade the shitty flats and a big old house swap should happen. instead when the old people die their council houses are sold on the open market for £300k plus, this has happened twice in the last 3 years in our road. no new houses are built to replace them. and no improvements are done to the shitty flats

@watersprites so where are people working on minimum wage meant to live? Perhaps we could be provided with barracks or something?

I mean 60k today is the equivalent of about 35k in 2005 & yet you are now paying higher tax rates & many of the jobs that paid 35k then are not owing 60k now.

paying

They absolutely do. Do you not read the papers, go on social media or talk to anyone under 45? It's the solution to the housing crisis, haven't you heard?

Same as a lot of generations did b for them rent.

And there won't be this mass emigration, houses are expensive everywhere ,where they going to, many country's are shutting their doors.

I don’t think this is a serious proposal. However, there is a reality that people now are living about 10 years longer than in the 1980s. This means that even without immigration and falling birth rates, the population increases and means that there is a shortage of houses for young families. Whereas people used to die in their 70s, over half of people now live till 86 and so continue to live mainly in family homes.

Even if there were no immigration, more houses would need to be built to accommodate young families. It is why nimbyism and the claim that ‘it’s always been hard’ is completely tone deaf. Due to increased life expectancy, the old structure is not working.

I wonder if the Asian tradition of extended families living together makes more sense. There are many English families where the grandparents live in large family houses and have a much better lifestyle in retirement while their children and grandchildren are in cramped accommodation, even with both parents working full-time. This damages the life chances of their grandchildren and the next generation.

Inheritance now happens more in people’s 60s, and so again concentrates wealth with the old. Increased life expectancy is great, but does have social consequences for the balance of society and fairness across the generations which we need to be able to discuss.

@Needmorelego I don't understand your question? I made the point that whether you inherit or not impacts more on your chances of owning a house than your job. How is that productive?

Why should people give up a home that they have lived in all their adult lives. Moving is very stressful, costs a lot of money (stamp duty, legal fees, moving costs). Why should older people have to endure this (for many the stress would be unbearable).

people really are stupid at times.

The point that has been missed here is that families crammed into to-small terraces aren't in that position because there's a shortage of larger houses all occupied by the elderly. It's because they can't afford the larger houses. Families with greater means will indeed be in the bigger houses.

My husband and I are desperate to sell our family home and downsize to a bungalow.

Can't find any and we're just relying on the elderly to go into care homes or die?!

So many have been snapped by younger folk or people with property portfolios and these bungalows are immediately extended upwards and outwards.