Woman stripped and left topless in a cell!

[Dovetail40]

This is disturbing to read. I hope a proper investigation is carried and the missing time videos are found so she knows exactly what happened to her.

Sky news Greater Manchester Police

How come you are certain that it has been overwritten and hasn't been a software malfunction

I mean that poster might be certain because a few days ago a poster with apparently 20+ years police experience said this:

However I suspect the original data will have been overwritten

So now I'm wondering

a. How you came to suspect it was overwritten
b. how you now come to suspect its a software malfunction
c. what new information have you read in the meantime to make you change your mind

As otherwise you are being somewhat antagonistic to a poster who is saying the exact same thing you said and basically arguing against yourself

Catchasingmewithspiders
Your data strategies can still be affected by software/hardware issues from the start. Zayna was supplied with some of the footage - what if the the footage which was corrupted was from one camera. There will be 10-15 cameras which have picked her up in the police station - so what if one of the cameras developed a fault on that day. It was spotted straight away and technician was contacted to repair it, but was still not fixed during this incident for example.

Is that impossible to happen no matter what 'strategies' you have in place.

Successful cyber attacks will still happen - that's what knocked out Microsoft in 2021 and Amazon lost a fortune due to one. There will be loads more examples.

Great - the communication company you worked for never got breached - but it must have been possible, otherwise why were Russia and China persistently trying? Where there is a scheme, there is a schemer.

Yes, we do employ 'experts'. This is contracted out via a Capita who are a massive company with a lot of experience in this matter. Or would you rather just have one of the PC's to do it instead?

Catchasingmewithspiders
I suspect it may have been overwritten - it will depend on when the request was made for the footage. We can only keep it for 31 days unless its been marked as evidential. If there was no report/complaint made during this time, it wouldn't be evidential to anything.

Or it could be a software/hardware issue.

Or it could be some corrupt manager who has deliberately erased the footage to cover up for one of his officers

Who knows - we shall have to wait for an update.

I have said this a number of times on here.

I so love being lectured on data strategies by a man who doesnt work in data 🙄

Yes, we do employ 'experts'. This is contracted out via a Capita who are a massive company with a lot of experience in this matter. Or would you rather just have one of the PC's to do it instead?

Where have I ever suggested it be a PC do this. You are the only one trying to pretend a PC is a data expert.

Just as a reminder you suggested that the police could employ data experts, implying they didn't currently, not me...

See that bit at the bottom of the screenshot...

So you have gone from:

Its overwritten as per the data protection rules
It was a software issue that corrupted the data
The camera was faulty

Basically you don't know, you are guessing but pretending your guesses are somehow more valid than anyone else's.

You demand proof from others when they say they belive it could be due to police corruption. Where is your proof for any of the above.

Honestly if the camera was broken at the exact 2 time periods the CCTV was missing why on earth wouldnt the police have just said that?

Of course I'm guessing. I'm not part of the enquiry and am not part of that police force. Its all just guess work and assumptions. That's why we need to wait for an update.

The sexual offence could have happened prior to the police attending her address. It could have happened at her address by the police officers. It could have happened in the police van. It could have happened in the custody dock. It could have happened at the custody desk. It could have happened in the cell. We don't know at this stage - we have to keep an open mind.

I don't need to work in data to understand that error/faults can occur at any time with software/hardware

As I have said before - we have Capita which is the 'expert' for us. As I am not part of the police force in this incident I don't know who they employ as an 'expert'.

You’re speculating a lot on this thread @Felix125, something you were very anti on the Caroline Farrow thread. Why is this?

So the idea is that its a hardware failure that happens in under 1% of occasions and can usually be resolved with a decent backup strategy

Or a CCTV equipment failure. Which is fairly worrying if the police rely on the CCTV and it might not have been working. But only for a couple of time periods within the 40 hours

So the CCTV cuts out at 9:49am. They have realised, got an engineer out, had it fixed all by 11am. Then when it goes out at 1pm, they realise, get an engineer out and get it fixed within the hour.

Does the engineer live next door and have no other work on?

I work with field service engineers with a pretty decent response time and I think even they would be hard put to meet those kind of sla's.

Not only is he speculating a lot, some of his speculations are in direct contradiction to the statement put out by the police force concerned

Maybe he doesn't trust them either?

Felix125 · Today 09:42
AnSolas
So if you are saying that it is possible that a software/hardware malfunction has occurred.

How come you are certain that it has been overwritten and hasn't been a software malfunction. Given that part of the same footage has been supplied to Anya?

We do get DPA training - Under DPA , there are rules about the storage of such footage.

Well @Felix125 The police could be telling lies about it being overwritten but I would hope that senior management are honest not publishing misleading statements.

@Felix125

I can walk you through why any "Officer 100% Not a Rapist or Committer of other Unlawful Acts" has a reasonable expectation that his employer would not subject him to weeks or months or even years work related stress by having a policy where "Officer Data" is creating a copy but not marking footage and instead opting to have the data overwritting.

I think you'll find on the Caroline Farrow thread I consistently said that we don't know the facts. We didn't know what she was arrested for, we didn't know who the reporting person was or what they reported. We just don't know.

And on this thread I have said similar. We don't know that facts yet. We don't know if Zayna was attacked in her home prior to the police getting there, if it happened by a cop at her address, if it happened in the van, if it happened in the cell - we just don't know.

We don't know if its a software or hardware malfunction, if its senior management covering up for one cop - we just don't know.

Catchasingmewithspiders
Is it one camera that is out?
Is it the camera that is out - or the hardware/software behind it?
How many camera's did Zayna get - is it the same camera that is out or two perhaps?

Perhaps the engineer works on site and is employed by Capita - who knows
Perhaps the camera was out for a significant length of time (days) before it was fixed. The gaps in the footage is possibly because there are multiple camera angles whilst she is in custody (custody desk, holding room, detainee corridor, exercise yard, showers etc etc)

AnSolas
Of course they might be lying. There might be a big cover up. The whole senior management team may be willing to risk their jobs and jail by covering up for one cop who has committed a serious sexual offence in the cell.

And if its proven that this is the case - then they all need to be sacked and jailed.

You'll possibly need to 'walk me through it' because I don't follow what your saying in your last post.

So the Police are lying in their statement then?

And quite frankly if the Police are paying for a CCTV engineer to sit around in each station just in case then they can stop complaining they are underfunded!

But of course they aren't, we both know that, you are just clinging to a ridiculous theory now

If you had actually read the news article you would already some of the things you are saying are wrong though

So what have the police said then as an update?
It hasn't made the news in our region

An I never said he was specifically a CCTV engineer only. He could be technical engineer that is trained on a whole host of IT things.

PMSL at "IT engineer" and "CCTV engineer" being the same thing

Slightly less amused by the absolute lack of respect for professions other than police officer that's been repeatedly demonstrated

And you can do your own googling thanks

I did say 'perhaps'

Perhaps they have to have a specific engineer for the CCTV cameras and another specific engineer for the software. Then another specific engineer for the hardware. Then another specific engineer for the data storage. Then another specific engineer that can do the copies. Then another specific engineer for the ball type CCTV cameras. Then another specific CCTV engineer for the more traditional CCTV cameras. Then another specific engineer for the static cameras. The another specific engineer for the multiplex system.

Then 'perhaps' they all have to arrive at the station at the same time to make good the repair.

Perhaps this is why they take so long to get them all fixed!

Or perhaps there is some who can be an IT engineer and a CCTV engineer at the same time.

After all - I'm assumed to be an expert on talking a suicidal person off a bridge one minute - then assumed to be an expert on Albanian cannabis farms the next.

You appear to have missed the simple fact that police have issed a statment which
@twoandcooplease kindly provided on 03/08/2023 04:25 and even @ed you in it.

Or perhaps there is some who can be an IT engineer and a CCTV engineer at the same time

Yeah this is more like assuming a member of the civil service finance team can quickly swap to being an armed response officer

Perhaps they have to have a specific engineer for the CCTV cameras

A CCTV engineer maybe a capita employee more likely to be sub contracted out

and another specific engineer for the software.

A software engineer, possibly also sub contracted out to someone like cognizant but might be a Capita employee

Then another specific engineer for the hardware.

What hardware? PCs? Service desk engineer maybe? Server racks? Surely its all cloud based by now?

Then another specific engineer for the data storage.

Data engineer, see software engineer above

Then another specific engineer that can do the copies

Yeah this is probably not a job "copy engineer". I would have thought there would be a team specific for information requests but given the recent spate of cock ups with police data requests perhaps not...

Then another specific engineer for the ball type CCTV cameras. Then another specific CCTV engineer for the more traditional CCTV cameras. Then another specific engineer for the static cameras

Probably the same CCTV engineer as before, what makes you think there would be multiple ones?

The another specific engineer for the multiplex system.

What do the police use MUXs for? That's interesting.

I'm not sure what your point was with this long list except to somehow make out like you know more than me about something you clearly know very little about

*Then 'perhaps' they all have to arrive at the station at the same time to make good the repair.

Perhaps this is why they take so long to get them all fixed!*

So you are suggesting that the software, the hardware , four different types of camera and a mux all went down at the same time to cause this issue.

And that software and data engineers somehow need to be at a specific police station to fix software and data issues.

Because if this is how the police actually operate/employ Capita then they are more messed up than we thought.

If you are trying to make out the Police are anything but inept you are not managing that here.

Funny thing
To make sure that a single staff can not access (& damage) the whole system good data management requires specific roles and prevention of overlaping access.

Catchasingmewithspiders
So it might be one person who can fix the problem. maybe it needs a number of people. maybe they can do it from the station, maybe not. Who knows.

It doesn't deflect for the theory that it could be a fault somewhere in the system.

You'll possibly need to 'walk me through it' because I don't follow what your saying in your last post

Explain why you as an employee should be happy that your employer has removed a record of your work product which proves that you did not engage in gross misconduct and/or unlawful activities

Oh I'm not denying it could be a fault in the system

My point is that from what you are saying on here the Police don't seem to have a very fault tolerant system

I've worked in banks making millions of transactions a month and funnily enough they have excellent systems for preventing data corruption

Because you wouldn't like it if your life savings just disappeared and the bank said "Oh sorry data corruption, oh well never mind its gone now and there's nothing we can do"

If the police force cannot be trusted to have competent data strategies to keep evidence safe then they cannot function as our police force given what a large part of their remit it is.

AnSolas
Explain why you as an employee should be happy that your employer has removed a record of your work product which proves that you did not engage in gross misconduct and/or unlawful activities

You wouldn't be - whats your point here?

You think that the senior management team have footage that shows the cop has acted professionally and did nothing wrong. But instead they have decided to delete this to 'cause problems' for the cop, their force and the police in general?

Catchasingmewithspiders
This could be the only problem that this police force has had with its CCTV.

But its good that you have worked on a foolproof system for banks so that they are 100% certain that they will never ever have any problems with their data ever again. Not like Lloyds, Bank of Scotland, Halifax in 2021 then.

Perhaps you could sell the same system to Microsoft and Amazon. Or install it into all the ATM's that seem to be 'out of order'.

Err no..
I think that the data policy should be that if the police have any footage which is requested by a data subject that such data is is not overwritten for a reasonable period of time (and if requested that 30/31 days is not a reasonable period).