Woman stripped and left topless in a cell!

[Dovetail40]

This is disturbing to read. I hope a proper investigation is carried and the missing time videos are found so she knows exactly what happened to her.

Sky news Greater Manchester Police

possibly 1.

I am assuming that if Zayna has been given a copy, then the original was not overwritten due to it being stored beyond its 31 days. But again, I'm not sure when the request was made.

But.... I'm not sure if the original data has been corrupted or just the copy that was sent to Zayna. If this is a technical issues, then is it down to Capita or the software company?

But again - it goes back to my point that:

Felix125 · 04/08/2023 09:48
If its been deliberately done (deleted) - then its wrong and people should be sacked/jailed.

1. The police had the data then received an data request, then supplied a copy and still have the original data

Why are the police unable to produce the original data now.

Because it appears to be corrupted. Whether that is an error/glitch on the disc, an error on the database, a software issue, a hardware issue, third party involvement etc etc - who knows at this stage.

The statement released by the police force stated something similar.

See once again this it where the the audit process marks your DPA assessment as a fail

How?

Its a trust test

And how does it take account of software/hardware issues, malfunctions?

And who is to blame - the police, Capita or the software company

You talk like it's 30 years ago and everything's on floppy disks

If a file is corrupted restore the backup version

The police can't possibly be keeping evidence without a proper system of back ups etc etc

Simple
DPA answer : The police

How, honestly, could it be anyone but the police rhetorical question @Felix125, before you drone on at me). This is so revealing @AnSolas. Thank you.

AnSolas
So it can't possibly be the software supplier that had an issues with their software that caused the problem. As the software controls the data.

Can't possibly be the hardware supplier that caused the disc to crash. As the hardware stores the data.

Can't possibly be Capita, who is responsible for the management all of this.

Catchasingmewithspiders
The backup version is held on a database. Where do you think the databases store their data? Doesn't have to be a floppy disc to become corrupted. Data cartridges and solid state drives can become corrupted too.

So what happens if the backup system is corrupted, the place where the data is stored on long term storage?

So you are suggesting that both the live version of the database and the back up version of the database have become corrupt in the same place at the same time?

And bearing in mind many data strategies suggest three copies are kept in three separate places.

So you are suggesting that two to three copies of the same data stored in separate locations are all corrupt at the same time?

But only part of the data, the same part each time?

That seems, unlikely...

Or the original 'version' was corrupted - and hence any further copies will be corrupted also. So it doesn't matter how many copies you make - you are going to have the same problem.

So you are suggesting that corrupt data was uploaded to a database and at no point in the ETL process did the corrupt data cause an issue, it entered the database and at no point were any jobs run to check for corrupt data in the database?

And not just one corrupt file, two corrupt file from two different sources, one from body cam footage and one from CCTV from the cell.

It sounds like the police have bad data management practices.

Simple
DPA answer : The police

Or

1.1) professional incompetence
1.2) fabrication of training knowlege
1.3) misrepresentation of training knowlege

Huh, which is more likely, the exact bit of tape that proves she was raped by police in custody was sadly corrupted, or this is a cover up by the police?

If they were willing to rape her then they’ll hardly think “oh no a request for evidence I must do the right thing and hand it over”

It's either suspicious for the reasons you have pointed out or massively incompetent to the point where people could question the point of the police

Either two different pieces of equipment were malfunctioning some, but not all, of the time corrupting the data

Or the software to extract the data, which may not be the same for both recording devices, was malfunctioning some but not all of the time and corrupted the data

Or the data was not backed up correctly and therefore when it corrupted it couldn't be restored, which going by the GMP statement sounds more likely

Their data policies sound incompetent. And if they cannot be trusted to accurately extract and store video evidence from CCTV without corrupting it or backing it up then they cannot fundamentally be trusted to do their job.

So they are either covering up a crime or are massively incompetent to a dangerous level

Catchasingmewithspiders
Most of the footage has been passed to Zayna, its only a couple of files that have been corrupted. Do you think that its impossible for this to happen - that software or hardware issues never happen?

Any jobs to check for corrupt data - do you think we employ people just to watch footage from all the CCTV and BWV in the force to make sure its not corrupted? We must have about 50 CCTV cameras in and around the building which are on 24/7. So you are going to employ 100 people on 12 hour shifts to watch it all. And that's not to mention the BWV footage from cops - which will be even more.

What 2 sources? Where does it say that the BWV footage is also corrupted. Its the footage from custody that is in question from what I have read.

Their data policies sound incompetent
So what should they do. Develop their own software & hardware and not use companies such as Microsoft to supply them as they can't be trusted?

Are the public OK to fund such development costs?

Are the public OK to get rid of companies such as Capita as the management for 'back office' roles and hand them all back to police?

AnSolas
Or
A software malfunction
A hardware malfunction

Are you saying both of these are impossible to have happened?

Answer
1 - yes
2 - no

Brk
Or has the rape/sexual assault happened prior to any police interaction with her.
After all, she was found in her home address under the influence of drugs, which is out of character for her. So is it possible she could have invited someone in who has then drugged and raped her? Or is that just not a possibility?

OR do you think that having watched the CCTV footage of one of their cops raping/sexual assaulting her in a cell - the senior management have decided to risk all of their jobs and possible jail by covering it up? As apposed to doing the easiest thing (and correct thing) and arresting the officer concerned?

Do you think that its impossible for this to happen - that software or hardware issues never happen?

Yes software and hardware issues can happen. But there are lots of data strategies you can put in place specifically to stop that from happening. If the HMRC come to do an audit funnily enough "I lost the data" isn't considered a good excuse!

And having three different points of data from two different devices corrupt at random points is fairly unusual unless either your hardware or your software is obsolete/not fit for purpose.

do you think we employ people just to watch footage from all the CCTV and BWV in the force to make sure its not corrupted?

No this was not what I was suggesting for goodness sakes. There are jobs you can run on a database to check for corrupt data. There are plenty of ways to set these up. I understand data probably isn't your thing but as you are setting yourself up as the expert on what went wrong with this data it would be nice if you understood the basics of ETL jobs and database administration.

So what should they do. Develop their own software & hardware and not use companies such as Microsoft to supply them as they can't be trusted?

No I think they should have jobs running to detect corrupt data, proper data corruption recovery and a decent back up process

What 2 sources? Where does it say that the BWV footage is also corrupted. Its the footage from custody that is in question from what I have read.

No it's clear from the news that there is BMV footage and CCTV footage missing. So 2 sources have apparently corrupted.

Are the public OK to get rid of companies such as Capita as the management for 'back office' roles and hand them all back to police?

At no point have I suggested this. But if we take on a third party contractor to do some IT work for us, we are still liable if they fuck it up. And given the myriad of complains, investigations, it issues and data breaches reported about Capita over the years I think it's a symptom of a poor data framework that you think it's okay to just go "it's not us it's Capita". Capita keep fucking up, at what point do the police have a responsibility to find another data partner?

For profit companies provide resources which the police must manage. Failure to manage is always a police issue.

You fail to understand that I am not checking on the data I am checking on you claim that you have been appropriately trained by your employer.

DPA answer : The police

Or

1.1) professional incompetence
1.2) fabrication of training knowlege
1.3) misrepresentation of training knowlege

You seem to suggest there’s a level of data loss which is acceptable. What is your threshold and how did you arrive at it?

Catchasingmewithspiders
What data strategy can you put in place which is going to stop a software malfunction right at the start of the process? If its corrupted at the start, it may never be recoverable. How are you going to prevent this? Cyber attacks happen all the time to companies who have incredibly tight restrictions. Software malfunctions happen to companies such as Apple & Microsoft. No one is infallible.

Perhaps we could provide a job to 'an expert' to check for any data issues. But is that going to be a police officer or is this given to 'an expert' from outside the force. And if it goes wrong, who is liable? The expert or the expert's company or the police?

The missing BWV is by the fact that the camera was not 'recording' during the journey back to the police station or whilst in the holding area. Its not that its corrupted, it just isn't there. Its on its 30 second loop at this point and is overwritten after the 30 seconds. I have mentioned this before - and in my opinion you should always leave your BWV camera on as much as possible (there are certain circumstances where we can't). But this has a huge storage cost to the force.

AnSolas
You didn't answer my question -

Are you saying both of these software issues are impossible to have happened?

Answer
1 - yes
2 - no

You may not type anything beyond supplying one of the numbered options

WILTYjim
I never said its acceptable. I'm suggesting what might have happened.
And no data loss is acceptable

@Felix125
What data strategy can you put in place which is going to stop a software malfunction right at the start of the process? If its corrupted at the start, it may never be recoverable. How are you going to prevent this?

Take regular backups
Have good, up to date anti virus and anti malware software
Do regular updates and apply patches as released
Use tools to check drive health
Ensure passwords are required to access systems
Etc etc etc

You keep saying the software malfunctioned. Do you mean the software that copies the data from the device? In which case just run a job to detect file corruption after completing the copy and before the data from the device gets deleted. This can all be done automatically.

Cyber attacks happen all the time to companies who have incredibly tight restrictions.

Are you suggesting this is due to a cyber attack? And most companies stop cyber attacks because they have good cyber security policies. By using this example you seen to be implying that if the police data got stolen/corrupted due to a cyber attack that would also be unavoidable. Where as actually companies manage to stop cyber attacks all the time. I worked for a communications company that was constantly targeted by Russia and China and still never got breached because they actively promoted an excellent cyber security process. Funnily enough they didn't lose data to corruptions either.

Perhaps we could provide a job to 'an expert' to check for any data issues. But is that going to be a police officer or is this given to 'an expert' from outside the force. And if it goes wrong, who is liable? The expert or the expert's company or the police?

I would absolutely hope the police does employ data experts to apply robust data strategies to ensure the security and integrity of their databases. The fact that you seem to imply they don't is a bit worrying (a lot worrying!) Most large companies have whole teams of data experts.

And as has been demonstrated to you numerous times on this thread, the police are liable if something goes wrong with their data. Regardless of whether or not its an employee or a contractor. They may then decided to sue the third party company for losses etc but it doesn't minimise their culpability.

Who is your data controller?

A software malfunction
A hardware malfunction

Are you saying both of these are impossible to have happened?

Answer
1 - yes
2 - no

A software malfunction answer 2 - no
A hardware malfunction answer 2 - no

Answer
2 for both

Overwriting is not software malfunction
Overwriting is not hardware malfunction

You should know this ^ if your employer provides DPA training

AnSolas
So if you are saying that it is possible that a software/hardware malfunction has occurred.

How come you are certain that it has been overwritten and hasn't been a software malfunction. Given that part of the same footage has been supplied to Anya?

We do get DPA training - Under DPA , there are rules about the storage of such footage.