Woman stripped and left topless in a cell!

[Dovetail40]

This is disturbing to read. I hope a proper investigation is carried and the missing time videos are found so she knows exactly what happened to her.

Sky news Greater Manchester Police

So that means the police have all the time in the world to 'structure their account/statement to match the footage'?

That seems unfair. The footage should be handed to a third party, maybe the IPOC?

Its a newspaper report.
Sue Arnold never made a claim that a specific unlawful act happened.
The woman said she had a list of suspects not a named individual.
She lists why she ranked some suspects as more likely than other unnamed suspects of gossip
The jury pool is anybody who read the report.
They get to judge based on the known "good character" of the accused.

As for the "missing" footage
Having the camera and being able to produce footage is a cost of doing business.
The UK police is lucky that the request is limited to people in the footage as in the US anybody has the right to be given a copy of any footage requested and 1st Amendment Auditing has become a cash generation business.

The fact is senior management are not managing the reputation risk.
Am I going to sit in the jury box of public opinion and give senior management the benefit of "trust me bro" for a 2+ year delay in handing over the footage when they are trying to minimise reports on the legal stripping a detainee as "not a stripsearch welfare check".

Good to see this case getting some daylight. I read about it a while back as it was being championed by Sevadaar Singh who is a Sikh that independently fights for people who've been mistreated.

CherryMaDeara
So that means the police have all the time in the world to 'structure their account/statement to match the footage'?

No they can't - as i said before, we can't review our BWV before writing statements etc. The individual officer or officers who is/are being accused won't be allowed to view the footage to 'structure their account'

If it is an ongoing investigation - then the it will be passed to IOPC

AnSolas
But you'r asking me to prove it wasn't a police officer. Why do i need to do that and not a neighbour or a postal worker?

As for the "missing" footage
Having the camera and being able to produce footage is a cost of doing business. - not if its part of an ongoing enquiry.

I doubt in the US anybody can request any footage they want.
So I can request footage of a murder captured on CCTV which has nothing to do with me - or request CCTV from a local primary school which has nothing to do with me?

Over two years later after deciding not to comply with a legal obligation the police force are so poorly resourced that senior management decided not to allocate an officer to conduct any kind of interview with her?

But senior managers are are still allocating resources to investigate to provide evidence for a trial?

She is in custody for the legal reason of being off her head in her own home and refusing medical help and getting into a fight with an officer then while in custody the staff record her lack of capacity and 40hrs after the arrest doctors are still willing to document her lack of capacity ?

So what is the charge and likelyhood of conviction?
Is this an effective allocation of manpower?

Or
She is in custody for the legal reason of being off her head in her own home and refusing medical help and getting into a fight with an officer and during the 40hrs in a secure cell other fights (?) happens all the while the staff record her lack of capacity and later doctors are willing to document her lack of capacity ?

So what is the charge and likelyhood of conviction?
Is this an effective allocation of manpower?

Exactly how long should senior management continue to sign off on an ongoing investigation being the lawful reason for delay the producing the footage?

Is there any senior management who think that not interviewing a sexual assault victim 2 years after the event took place in a jail cell and refusing to inform her of a potential trial is a PR win?

No they can't - as i said before, we can't review our BWV before writing statements etc. The individual officer or officers who is/are being accused won't be allowed to view the footage to 'structure their account'

Maybe I'm being cynical but this doesn't mean all that much. The supervisors still have access. I think police close ranks in these situations.

The supervisors don't have access - even if they did, they can't write the statement for the officer.

If its under investigation, then chances are its in the hands of the IOPC

AnSolas

I believe the original offence she was arrested for was assault on an emergency worker. Not sure what the outcome of this was - charge, bail or NFA

When was it that she made the complaint of sexual assault. Was it straight after she was released or was it reported some time afterwards?

But you'r asking me to prove it wasn't a police officer. Why do i need to do that and not a neighbour or a postal worker?

Nope i pointed out your inability to be tatical and de-escalate.

As for the "missing" footage
Having the camera and being able to produce footage is a cost of doing business. - not if its part of an ongoing enquiry.

Ok as per my prior post
Take the reported reason for her original arrest. What are the likely charges and how long until the legal clock runs out?

GMP is aware that these three individuals are unhappy with the service they received when they were arrested and detained - their complaints have or are being investigated by the force. Though one investigation is ongoing, there is currently no evidence to suggest any GMP employees have misconducted themselves or committed a criminal offence

The officers involved are not going to find new evidence. What is the reasoning for senior management to decide to allow the public to believe that there was a (sexual ) assault by an officer in the cells? Were they too stupid to not have modeled this as a risk in the data retention policy?

currently no evidence
Tone of the Clinton defence there

So I can request footage of a murder captured on CCTV which has nothing to do with me
A citizen can request " " work product of the government " " once it is classed as a public record eg your salary and other payments, your BWV, work data on a mobile etc are a public official doing public duties. I believe collected third party cctv is not a public record but have no idea if it only becomes one if used in a trial. The 'manifesto' issue is currently working its way through the courts.
The local authority can try to delay it or charge an uneconomical amount or even threaten crimimal charges but the courts will issue a production as part of the checks and balances of their Constitution
So if not pro-actively published the police BWV response to shootings in the schools etc can all be requested.
How did you think that the local news at 10 get their investigation footage from?

or request CCTV from a local primary school which has nothing to do with me?
If the teachers were public officials doing official duties etc their footage (not the children) would be requestable.
If there is BWV by police in the school you can request it. Lots of angry voters in Florida forced a rule that the responding officer had to get specific senior management sign off after a 6 yo was ziptied because the handcuffs were too tight. The children were not blurred out.

arrested her after she knocked the glasses off a female officer's face

Not sure what the outcome of this was - charge, bail or NFA

What do you mean by NFA?

Am I correct in assuming each charge has a finite period in which she can be charged?

Plus how would you vote on a jury when asked to judge the actions of a person during an acute psychotic episode?

When was it that she made the complaint of sexual assault.
Zayna's memory comes in flashbacks, which is why she asked for footage of her detention, along with custody logs, using a subject access request - which can be made to obtain personal information held by an organisation.
........
The Manchester mayor's office has told Zayna that GMP have all the footage from the police cell.
Zayna is calm and measured now as she asks: "Why would you withhold footage? The very footage that could either prove or disprove my allegations you will not part with.
"Who's got something to hide? I'm openly saying that at some point during my detention with Greater Manchester Police I was drugged and sexually assaulted, prove me wrong - give me the footage."

I guess the senior managers should have gotten an hint via report from the data officer when the refusal happened and each instance where she or her solicitor contacted them after that.
Plus the mayor contacted them.

Was it straight after she was released or was it reported some time afterwards?

After her release, Zayna went straight to hospital.

Going by the report she took herself or was transfered from the custody of the police to custody of the NHS (sectioned)
@Ponkyandthebrain post's on the timeline and "admitted with an acute psychotic episode" would support sectioned then transfered.

Her medical report states: "Miss Iman does not have any prior history of mental disorder, she has been admitted with an acute psychotic episode which has resolved without treatment. It is highly likely that this is drug related to 'the date rape drug' which led to a sexual assault." Medical records also indicate sexual injuries.

So the hospital will have a timeline of her asking to be examined and/or the doctor(s) carrying out a clinical exam and writing up their notes.

AnSolas

NFA - No Further Action

Can a jury decide on a person who is having a psychotic episode - it will be taken into consideration if they deem that she had capacity at the time. Its like a murder being committed under diminished responsibility.

From reading the report, I understand cocaine was involved - has she suffered from cocaine induced ABD? (acute behavioral disorder)

So has she been able to confirm when the sexual assault took place - was it prior to the arrest or after? For example - has some unknown person supplied her with a drug, raped/sexually assaulted her and left her in her house. neighbours phone the police who arrive a short time later.

And when did she report the sexual assault to the police?

Data sharing - be it CCTV, BWV or phone data must be different in the USA to the UK. You can't get access like that in the UK. Otherwise a pedophile can just ask for CCTV footage from a local primary school. Or some sicko can ask for police's BWV from a sudden death or fatal car crash.

In the UK, the media have to apply for it and it has to be in the public interest to broadcast - they can't just broadcast anything they want.

NFA - No Further Action

For the senior management managing the reputation risk what are their options?

a) charge her on the available evidence or give her the (redacted) footage

or

b) send an officer to take a statement and explain the lawful delay in giving her the footage

Have I missed option C?

Can a jury decide on a person who is having a psychotic episode - it will be taken into consideration if they deem that she had capacity at the time. Its like a murder being committed under diminished responsibility.

She is in custody for the legal reason of being off her head in her own home and refusing medical help and getting into a fight with an officer and during the 40hrs in a secure cell other fights (?) happens all the while the staff record her lack of capacity and later doctors are willing to document her lack of capacity ?

how would you vote on a jury when asked to judge the actions guilty mind of a this woman during an acute psychotic episode?

From reading the report, I understand cocaine was involved - has she suffered from cocaine induced ABD? (acute behavioral disorder)

Police in the house decided on the cell rather than A&E so it depends on what tests were run 40h later.

So has she been able to confirm when the sexual assault took place - was it prior to the arrest or after? For example - has some unknown person supplied her with a drug, raped/sexually assaulted her and left her in her house. neighbours phone the police who arrive a short time later.

And when did she report the sexual assault to the police?

The police have footage which would (should) alibi all the individuals who were in contact with her once the police arrived.
If she was given the footage she would be better informed.

And if she was attacked prior to the police arrival the police failed to spot that.
And now that it is public have prepared a rather solid defence case.

Data sharing - be it CCTV, BWV or phone data must be different in the USA to the UK.

it is not about modern data sharing its from the 1791 first amendment.

Its a different mindset and interesting to see how the same basic systems evolved.
But if your local town elected mayor and elected sheriff have the power to write a local law just to run up fines or impound your stuff or jail you on charges they know are BS just because they can etc you might agree it helpful, open and transparent form of government oversight.

You can't get access like that in the UK. Otherwise a pedophile can just ask for CCTV footage from a local primary school.
the children are not agents of the state so no CCTV

Or some sicko can ask for police's BWV from a sudden death or fatal car crash.
There are whole utube channels which focus on police actions (shootings, car chases).
Tbf the viewer only gets to view and hear while an individual officer seen, heard, smelled and physically touched and had an emotional reaction to while the recording was happening.

In the UK, the media have to apply for it and it has to be in the public interest to broadcast - they can't just broadcast anything they want.
USA Freedom of the press since 1791

Uk apply to the police for footage of the police management of a person in a cell detained after the police broke into a private home, who gets to decide what is in the public interest and and can JoePublic access the appeals process for no or reasonable cost.

The charge, bail or NFA relates to the offence she was arrested for - which I assume was assault on an emergency worker. Just because someone is 'off their head on drugs' doesn't mean to say they can't be guilty of something. For example a drugged driver who kills someone, who can't remember what they have done due to intoxication will still be found guilty. Ditto for say drunk & disorderly.

If its a psychotic episode, then evidence of their mental capacity at the time will be taken into account.

If it was a case she was attacked prior to the arrest - then at what point were the police informed of this? If its a case that she is stating that it was when she was in custody, then the footage will not be released to her as it will form part of the investigation by the IOPC. Otherwise she may formulate her statement around the footage and any competent defence barrister will have the case thrown out.

As I stated before - the USA & UK have different policies for data sharing such as CCTV etc etc. People can not access what they want.

The charge, bail or NFA relates to the offence she was arrested for - which I assume was assault on an emergency worker. Just because someone is 'off their head on drugs' doesn't mean to say they can't be guilty of something.

how would you vote as a member of a jury when asked to decide guilt or innocence on the charge of assault on an emergency worker?

It depends what the evidence presented to the jury is.

Is it caught on CCTV where the suspect clearly is seen to assault the officer. Then probably guilty.

Or is it more a case that the suspect has moved her arm and caught the officer in the face - the jury might see that as being more 'accidental' as apposed to intentional or reckless - then probably not guilty.

Or it could be that during the mele caught on CCTV it isn't clear who assaults the officer - then probably not guilty.

If guilt what do you think the punishment should be?

@Felix125 People can not access what they want.

Felix, the woman completed a Data Subject Access Request, relating to her arrest
She is entitled to this. ALL OF THIS

Ansolas
Punishment - its normally a fine

zooopta
Not if its part of an enquiry

For example - If I am part of an enquiry where I have been a victim of an assault, but not sure who has assaulted me. I can't review the CCTV before I provide my statement. If I could, I would just tailor my statement to match the footage and say "It was definatley zooopta who assaulted me by punching me to the back of my head and ribs" when in reality I have no idea who it was.

My statement and the CCTV should be submitted as separate evidence.

Otherwise you could say that it was unfair that I was able to watch the CCTV before providing my statement as it makes the case damming against you.

I would think in that situation then she wouldn't have been given any of it as it's all part of the investigation?
She alleges she was "drugged and sexually assaulted while being held in custody by GMP" so why would her DSAR give her access to any of the 40 hours of its all

And in the report to Sky News they added the comments "GMP has not explained why the footage is missing but says there is currently no evidence to suggest any employees have misconducted themselves or committed a criminal offence." Somebody has had to view it to come to this conclusion? If they can watch it and say there's no crime she should be entitled to see the rest of the footage now?

@Felix125

Ansolas
Punishment - its normally a fine

What would you say is the longest lenght of time between the crime event and the decison to charge?

AnSolas

It depends on the offences - summary only offences, the time limit is 6 months
Other offences is not time limited.

zooopta

I don't know - perhaps the footage which has been released is not subject to that investigation. The footage that has not been released may be where there is interactions between staff & officers and subject to the investigation.

If you go back to my example - I could probably have access to the footage before and after the fight - but not the fight itself.

This.

Thoughts on GMP piss poor statement relating to CCTV?
I'm suspicious. And I'm not holding out hope for the recovered servers being able to recover the two missing hours

I am glad they have finally announced a statement but it is unforgivable this error has happened. Poor woman does not deserve this

Why in 2023 are we still relying on evidence being put onto a hard copy disc? With high chance of the file being corrupted shouldn't everything be digital or on a cloud?
It seems fucking stupid to be living in the 90's putting evidence on 'discs'

Not necessary imo and look at what happens. This woman's life has been turned upside down for 29 months and it's far from being over

@Felix125

Zayna's Twitter update

twitter.com/imanzayna/status/1686926202102001664?s=46&t=19siH7li5sxcePML6e75DQ

GMP statement
twitter.com/gmpolice/status/1686784369191538688?s=46&t=19siH7li5sxcePML6e75DQ

So its a technical issue that is preventing it from being disclosed.
So hopefully the police can recover the footage. But again, I don't think they will release it fully if its part of an investigation.

Most stuff is digitally stored, however it costs a fortune for data storage, so some archived material will be pl;aced onto a large hard discs.

This is why we are encouraged only to use BWV sparingly - to save of data storage costs.

I use mine all the time however and encourage my colleagues to do the same. Switched on at the start of the shift and tuned off at the end. It covers you for incidents such as this - but costs a fortune to store, which is passed onto the community in council tax hikes.