Halal/ alcohol free social event

[MrsMarieMopps]

Just wondering what everyone thinks. I am attending a work related training event. Diversity is a key element of my role and also of the training. The organisers have arranged to go for a meal at the local pub afterwards but have arranged a separate event at a different venue for those who would not go to a pub in a different restaurant.
Would it not be more inclusive for all to go to the non licensed premises, with the option for those who wish to go out drinking afterwards? It seems a shame that the connections between Muslim and non Muslim colleagues will not be strengthened through this work event.

The irony of being an inclusive company doing a networking event and having 2 different venues.

OP, you said business is alcohol related so presumably Muslim staff /clients don't mind alcohol per se, but do mind going to a pub. In that case, a compromise needs to be reached. A regular restaurant with or without halal meat.

Tell whoever organised it to look at the optics and change it.

I think she just wants the drinkers not to drink

Where I worked it was commonplace to have booze served for a lunch work meeting. I joined the company around 2000 and having an alcoholic father meant I don't drink and I don't like working with people who've been drinking.

Therefore, any events I organised for my department never include booze in the lunchtime training events.

I think having two venues is fine. I certainly wouldn't be keen on halal meat and I think having to choose vegetarian in a Halal establishment is not dissimilar to saying 'you're a woman so you can be the one to
compromise your ideals as your views are less important.'

Also, maybe London has lots of halal restaurants but I know most of the butchers over here don't sell it.

@useitorlose I'd never visit any country in the Middle East in the first place (women rights/human rights records) so definitely wouldn't eat halal. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@PurpleWhiteandGreen it's definitely not the alcohol industry, it's the charity sector

I'm in London and many restaurants are halal AFAIK. If you object to halal methods of killing meat, you really need yo be veggie IMO.

My workplace is very diverse. At Christmas we normally do eg a Turkish restaurant where the meat is often halal. I've not met a Muslim so strict they don't want to be where alcohol is served/consumed, they just won't drink it. This especially so in a restaurant as opposed to a pub, because eating is the primary reason you're there,

Don't forget some Muslims drink alcohol too, they aren't one homologous group, some are stricter than others.

@Moonmelodies I agree and lots of non Muslims don't drink for various reasons. A recovering alcoholic might struggle in a pub, but would be ok in a restaurant (where the focus is eating).

This.... As long as there are good fish and veggie options you're sorted.

Anything else is segregation

I can go without alcohol but I’d be pretty pissed if my only options were halal or vege and would likely feign stomach issues and then just go home, or eat elsewhere if away from work.

I don't understand why the non-drinkers can't go to a pub though? If they're terrified because they've never been in one and think they'll be barroom brawls and dunks vomiting in the corner then surely it would be a good opportunity to show them it's not like that while they're feeling safe in a large group of colleagues. It would also show them that there's absolutely no pressure to have alcohol. The pub is a pretty important part of British culture so I'd have thought they're going to find themselves excluded a lot if they completely avoid them. Plus, it would have presumably been chosen for a reason, namely it's more relaxed and sociable than a restaurant and usually serves a wide range of food and drink (I'm not sure where you're getting that pubs only serve things like a roast dinners or lamb chops with vegetables and potatoes?! All pubs I know serve a huge range from beef burgers to curries, pizza, moussaka, seafood and usually much, much more besides. And every single pub I've ever been in (a lot!) have always served a far greater range of soft drinks than any restaurant I can think of. Going to a halal restaurant will be exclusionary to any Sikhs, Jews etc (odd they're not being considered by the sounds of it?) plus anyone who just doesn't want to eat halal food. You'll also likely find a lot of people won't bother as a spicy meal and water with a load of people you don't know doesn't necessarily sound like much fun to many people, especially if they know they're only doing it because a minority of the group refuses to even walk into a pub. There would also probably be some resentment, which is presumably not what you're trying to achieve.

It is for some I haven't drunk alcohol for a while but I have zero objections to anyone else drinking. Same as all my friends are vegans I have no objection into going to eat in vegan restaurants as they have no objection to me eating meat in a restaurant where we go together and they choose the vegan options

You have no right to be dictating what others do

I dont understand this. I'm meeting my largely Muslim friendship group tonight in a bar

@Maddy70 I didn't say all I said some.

A restaurant serving veggie, gluten free, vegan and meat dishes (so most restaurants!)

Serving soft and alcoholic drinks

Perfect.

No one is left out

Yes, this sounds very odd. I'm happy to eat Halal meat, no meat, some meat, veggie, vegan....id also be happy to be in a place that served all of the above to my colleagues. I'm also happy to have no alcohol. I'd wait and see where the other people were going first before deciding.
Don't assume it will be a Muslim/non Muslim split.

It's not very inclusive of those who have ethical objections to halal and/or like to drink alcohol

Most resteraunts sell alcohol, why should everyone's choice be restricted because a religion they don't necessarily follow?

I'm a teetotal Muslim, and work for a large company.

I am used to nursing a coke during social events and eating veggie food/fish, whether in restaurants or pubs. I organised a social recently and ensured we went to a restaurant that had options for my colleagues who eat vegetarian, halal and kosher. One of my colleauge was happy to go a restaurant but not a pub, as the main reason for going to the restaurant was a meal, whereas the main function of a pub is to drink, so the intention was important to her.

After 20+ years in the workplace, I am now so bored of pubs/drinking culture but I feel like I can't stop going.

After #BLM, there was much talk of Muslim colleagues no longer feeling obliged to go on nights out, but it was forgotten about very quickly. There is a lot of peer pressure to go to drinks evenings, and even managers question why I am not there if I don't go.

Has anyone spoken to your Muslim colleagues to ask them what they think? Two venues seems the opposite of inclusivity.
I don’t drink, and the focus on alcohol at most work functions is a bit dull, but at least I get to bond with the young trendy Muslim boys in my team over the mocktail list!

I get that, and I live abroad and have family and friends from all different races and religions so we are used to catering for a wide variety when we go out. I’d choose a place that was suitable for everyone, as we do here - non drinkers can choose to not drink, others can choose a drink. Anyone who wants a halal option can choose that. Others can opt for non-Halal. I’d argue that choosing a place that doesn’t serve alcohol and only has halal meat isn’t really a neutral ground, most people I know (me included) probably would make an excuse not to attend. Outings with colleagues are awkward at the best of times so I’d probably not want to go if I felt it would be a basic meal with no treats - not worth the awkward socialising IMO!

It’s not that everyone is socially awkward and anxious. It’s that socialising with colleagues is bloody boring and a nice glass of wine makes it slightly more bearable because it feels like a bit of a treat instead of the torture that it actually is 😂

People who want/ don't want halal meat, can order a vegetarian pizza or fish and chips, or salad.. Those who drink alcohol can; and those who don't can have a soft drink.

All that can happen in one place . surely?

I think another factor is who is paying for the meal. Is it the business or the colleagues themselves? If it is the latter then certainly not everyone will go and even less will go if you are restricting drink/food choices.

Could it even be seen as racist to split up the gathering in this way? I'm very surprised that a mental health charity would consider such a thing.

I'm not Muslim (although I don't eat meat) but would choose to go to the restaurant rather than the pub. The clientele are more likely to be better behaved. I would also feel it necessary to show support my sidelined colleagues.

I'm not Muslim (although I don't eat meat) but would choose to go to the restaurant rather than the pub. The clientele are more likely to be better behaved.

Agree. One of the reasons I rather go to a restaurant than a pub as well as thinking people are more inclined not to get pissed at a restaurant than a pub.