Halal/ alcohol free social event

[MrsMarieMopps]

Just wondering what everyone thinks. I am attending a work related training event. Diversity is a key element of my role and also of the training. The organisers have arranged to go for a meal at the local pub afterwards but have arranged a separate event at a different venue for those who would not go to a pub in a different restaurant.
Would it not be more inclusive for all to go to the non licensed premises, with the option for those who wish to go out drinking afterwards? It seems a shame that the connections between Muslim and non Muslim colleagues will not be strengthened through this work event.

Yeah or nicer restaurants where there are some solid seafood dishes. It can be agreed that no alcohol will be consumed at the tables as a compromise. That could easily work for everyone.

@gogomoto but an English pub would just serve one type of food too?! Some people would find it difficult to find many differences between say a roast dinner and lamb chops with vegetables and potatoes.

Any arabic one? Plenty of non spicy options

I also missed the point as to why alcohol couldn't be served to those who want it? And a soft drink to those who want to stay sober?

Confused?

It's more that a lot of Muslim women wouldn't feel comfortable entering a pub, from my understanding

Provided everyone has the choice of which venue to attend there should not be any problem, surely.

I think they should choose the venue with the most options, so that as many people are catered for. This should include people who want alcohol. I don’t think it’s right that members of a group can dictate that others don’t drink because of their religious beliefs. But there should be absolutely no pressure for non drinkers to drink alcohol.

a lot of modern european restaurants (especially in central london) serve halal meat... claridges, the ritz, the Dorchester, le manoir etc. etc. so they definitely have non spicy food lol

@Cassetta being around people drinking alcohol, if that is not something you've been around as a child and growing up, can be terrifying. It's also not a good way to build shared understanding and work relationships. That may seem sterile and almost alienating but think it all the problems with workplace related drinking causes?

I live in the middle east, halal meat is the only sort there is. Same on flights to and from the region. Strangely enough, all the Brits here haven't decided to go vegan or vegetarian due to lack of availability of non-halal meat. Most will eat it if it is the only option, rather than go without.

Going against the grain to say this feels like the correct way of doing things.

Anyone who is uncomfortable about being around alcohol (not just Muslims but recovering alcoholics, some Christian denominations, women who feel uncomfortable around men who drink for example) can go one place without denying those who do want to drink (or don't mind being around alcohol, not all Muslims will avoid alcoholic establishments for example) the chance.

Also, some religions can't eat Halal food.

How is going to two separate venues following the "main" event any different to those who want to going out drinking afterwards?

It’s also not a great way of building working relationships if I fancy a glass of wine but am told that I can’t because it offends someone else.
Just pick somewhere like pizza express. Halal meat, food that doesn’t offend, not a pub, but can have a low key glass or wine or a pint

I wouldn't want halal, why not go to the pub, the Muslim people can eat vege and drink soft drinks, meat eaters and alcohol drinkers can have what they like too. You'd struggle to find a restaurant not licenced unless it was an Asian restaurant, I know several people who don't like curry or anything remotely exotic. Everyone can eat and drink in the pub, that would be the best option all round.

I disagree that it’s terrifying. I would also say that it is culturally mainstream in London to socialise with alcohol, including at work events. And I think actually it is a long-standing practice in many cultures to use alcohol to build relationships (eg buying/offering people drinks/toasts etc). I really don’t think you can seek to control others drinking, unless it leads to inappropriate behaviour (rudeness, sexual assault etc).

Inclusivity isn’t really embodied by sending all participants to a venue selected to accommodate a minority.

It’s a strange message to send to people. You may not enjoy yourself in a normal way, so that you don’t offend this group of your colleagues. Doesn’t it just highlight differences?

They should just do it in a normal restaurant that serves alcohol. Dividing the group into two makes no sense at all.

I am amused at those saying they won’t eat halal meat. So many restaurants use halal butchers for supply/budget reasons. Not just Muslim ones at all. I bet you never ask…you would be surprised!

I wouldn’t go and sit in a pub even if it’s for a meal.
Obviously the food wouldn’t be halal and there is a risk that even veggie or fish options may contain say lard or alcohol in the cooking.

Possibly a place were all can go which offers halal (or at least fish) options, vegetarian and similar may work better?
then whoever wants go for drinks after.

I have muslim friends that have come to
the pub with our group on occasion - have you specifically been told that some of the muslim women will feel uncomfortable or is it an assumption?

Can’t you hire a conference room at a hotel and get outside caterers that can cater for halal food & the hotel caters for everyone else & have alcohol & soft drinks? Possibly anyone wanting alcohol could go to the hotel bar? I think it’s easily done, it’s a work meeting so would probably be better at a conference centre as opposed to a pub anyway.

And I think actually it is a long-standing practice in many cultures to use alcohol to build relationships (eg buying/offering people drinks/toasts etc

Yeah. I read that in south korea they get proper smashed together to see if the other person is genuine. I have good liver but bloody hell, their reported drinking would put me in coma.
Persians used to debate drunk and sober and it had to sound good in both instances for the idea to be agreed. (I do that😂)

Why does it have to be a pub? If it's in central London there is a huge choice of all kinds of restaurants that will be used to catering for large groups.

Ok so what if it was 'ok you women can come out on the work social but we're going to a strip club, if you don't want to go to a strip club, here's a venue down the road you can go to, if you think our objectification of women offends you then don't come'? Both are legal.
How would you feel about that?
It's not about judgement, colleagues can drink as much as they like, but as this is a continuation of the training, and suggested as such, could there not be a way to accommodate everyone together? Why is it always the same side which has to give way to the other?

I really couldn’t get excited about it tbh. With a large group of diverse people it’s often difficult to find a menu which suits everyone, not to mention a venue with a menu which both suits everyone and is large enough for / will accept a very large booking. Having options to select from seems sensible and doesn’t preclude anyone from either.

Obviously the food wouldn’t be halal and there is a risk that even veggie or fish options may contain say lard or alcohol in the cooking.

You ask. It's not end of the world. We spent half if one holidays asking about whether something was made with lard or butter because I know that often it's the former. Most good places have safe options.

Can't those who object to any part of it just opt out as you're never going to please everyone?

Does it have to be a meal? Sometimes team building days are better? Escape rooms/Crazy golf that kind if thing then an optional meal/drinks after? There is tonnes to do in central london and a lot of places will cater for halal/non halal/vegan and vegetarian options x