To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

@Walruswithbraces our reasonable adjustment for children who need additional support or a 1-1 adult is to allow a parent/guardian or nominated adult of the parent’s choice to attend the session with the child and assist them as and when needed. If the parent is unable to provide someone, we can provide a member of staff but at an additional cost to the parent, to cover paying that extra staff member.
I am not obliged to be financially out of pocket to cater for any situation that falls outside the boundaries of our usual groups of children and staff ratios, we will always do our best to be inclusive but if this means additional cost for extra 1-1 staff then that cost has to be picked up by the parent. We are not a council run organisation, it’s a private business so we offer what we are able to do safely. We have had a number of children with additional needs attend over the years depending on the child’s requirements, reasonable adjustment has varied from parent actively participating in the session 1-1 with their child, to remaining on the premises but sat watching and available if needed, to dropping and leaving but with an emergency number provided just in case. We try to be accommodating but as a small business we have our limitations on what we can provide, and any associated additional costs have to be passed on to the individual customer .

But they haven't so the OP should absolutely be okay to go.

This would totally fuck me off OP. If they don't want young kids, they shouldn't take money from the parents of young kids.

But only at the very last minute which has undoubtedly left the OP in an extremely difficult situation.

And this is why there aren't many holiday options....because holiday camps aren't good businesses, its not full time income. Most sports camps are run by community club/volunteers more as a favour/service than a business. And then when parents treat them like a luxury service and start making demands and posting complaints publicly the organisers wonder why they are giving up their holidays for this and don't bother again.

Yes I know. But the OP used it in a different context.

Thanks for your response to that poster!

I think theiy should have spoken to you in person or by phone. it was wrong to send an e-mail at 8.45. But it does sound as if your dc's arent ready for this club. But I agree its probably aimed at older children and they dont have enough staff to cater for little ones. But they are still in the wrong.

The ones around here are all businesses. I therefore expect them to behave like a business

If they are advertising that they take young children, then they should be prepared and staffed appropriately. It’s a tennis club offering holiday coaching and that’s a childcare holiday club.

I'd have thought your best option would be to try and stay with him for a session, or ask a grandparent to stay if you can't, and explain to him that he's only to go to the toilet when he really needs to. See if you can train him to behave how they want him to, and then hopefully he can continue going.

It sounds as if he's been disappearing off to the toilet frequently which will have been scary and stressful for the staff.

I agree. Some clubs are run as a business (perhaps a tennis holiday club attached to a larger, full time tennis club etc) but many are run by volunteers/low paid students, and are not a great business model to start with. They're often inexpensive too. And yet parents expect a five star service when paying peanuts.

No wonder it's a struggle to get volunteers to run these sort of things.

I don't think anybody's at fault here. It sounds like your child just isn't really ready for this in terms of behaviour/concentration and the tennis club is within its rights to point that out to you. You say yourself that your child will ask for the loo just for the sake of it, and a sports coach at a class isn't really in the same position as you or their teacher might be to say 'Nope, you don't need to go again, that's enough messing around' as they don't have the established relationship with your child.

I don't think it's an age thing, just an individual child thing.

You said this yourself:

“Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much…”

This is probably causing the people running it stress and spoiling it for the other children. I wouldn’t focus on him saying he’s going alone and them saying a staff member goes; as someone else said, it could be that he goes alone but then goes exploring (as you said he does) and that they have to fetch him.

There’s a big difference between a child of 5 who hasn’t been in a formal school setting yet and one who has got used to following rules etc.

You say your mum asked about the toilet last week; I’ve never asked about this with either of my DC, which also suggests an issue with him and toilets.

I’m sure they wouldn’t turn down your money without a very good reason. I can understand why they might not have been prepared to say what they really thought when asked on the spot.

@Mumof2teens79 haha it is definitely a business, told my mum the price (she is a member so that will be fun 😂) and her response was ‘jeeezzo really! Tennis Coach how do you afford to live on xxxxx road (one of the most expensive streets in town) 😂

@budgiegirl definitely not peanuts, there’s two cheaper I chose this because we could walk to it

It's not reasonable to have a blanket policy for adjustments. So by saying "we always do this" isn't reasonable.

@wirehearts this was going to the toilet, actually physically. Until about 3 months ago he was having accidents as was according to pre school getting busy/distracted and not going in time.

OP you are getting a hard time. I know what you mean by "boggling". I am assuming you are in Scotland too.

I think the tennis club has made a couple of mistakes - they have put "5" as their lower age limit when they probably meant "5 and have completed P1". That is not your fault for taking them at their word and booking in your 5 year old.

When the club/leader realised that actually, your lad despite being 5 was too little/immature, sent a late night email rather than picking up the phone and discussing it, or speaking to you in person at pick up or drop off.

They have handled this really badly and I understand why you are pissed off and upset.

I was a SAHM and my kids used to go to holiday clubs just for enjoyment. They did all sorts, sports, swimming, acting, crafts. They learned new skills, saw old friends and made new friends.

It was a bit of a pita for me. It meant a holiday was just like a school day with pickups and drop offs and it obviously involved extra expense but they loved them.

We didnt start these until they were 7/8 though. At 5 they probably wouldn't have been able to concentrate for long enough and would have got tired and cranky. And if they didn't enjoy them (the younger one HATED gymnastics ) they didn't have to continue.

Also agree with @FeelingwearyFeeelingsmall that my kids did school holiday camps when they didn't "need" the childcare. Our local council used to run brilliant multisport camps in the school holidays 9-3, they would take them swimming, they'd play rounders, basketball, mini golf, all sorts of stuff. It was great for the kids socially as they would be mixing with lots of children they weren't at school with and would get to try out lots of new activities.

@Walruswithbraces I was giving examples of reasonable adjustments we have made for past attendees that needed additional support, not issuing a blanket policy. What works for one child may not suit another and we always discuss this with the parent first to try to find the best solution for them. The only rule I do have is that if it’s going to cost me additional money in order to make safe provision for a child outside our usual staff ratios, then that cost has to be covered by the parents of the child.

@FeelingwearyFeeelingsmall

That's great for your family. But given costs, a SAHP is a luxury for the few. Even on UC, a parent of a 5 year old is expected to do at least 16 hours. For most people, these things are childcare. Just because for you it was a luxury, doesn't mean it is for everyone.

There's a trend on this thread for people unable to see beyond their own circumstances- "I was at home, so I was fine." "I don't want difficult kids, so I insist on an adult staying." "We're not on holidays yet, so you can't be." "In my corner of the world, kids of 5 do this, so that must be everywhere!" "I use that dialect word differently, so OP is wrong, and should use a different word..." Omg.

Because they're can be big differences in 5 year olds, esp those who've had a year of school and those in nursery.

Op the actual coaches who were taking the group, how old are they?

Are they 20 something adults, or teens who love tennis with coaching certificates?

Is it possible they are teens have spoken to someone older, who's recognised that the young coaches are being exposed to either accusations of abuse spending to much time 1-1 away from the group. Or recognising that they would be blamed should something happens to the child while they were wandering off to the toilets?

Something else has happened to trigger the late email.

I wonder if they accidentally overbooked and are just ditching the hardest child to work with.