To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

Ditto… my older DC both train several evenings a week for their main sport during term time so there’s no time to do regular other sport. These short holiday clubs are a great opportunity for them to do a sport that say they’ve enjoyed during a PE block. We don’t do a lot because of the cost but I generally let them pick one a summer. I definitely don’t view them as 100% reliable childcare as eg if the weather’s bad they might be cancelled same day. And when they were young I’d either sit and watch or stay pretty close by as the staff ratios are typically low, staff are often young, etc.

We do have a lot of holiday club providers locally that provide ‘proper’ care for working parents, hours would usually be more like 8/9 - 5/6. But they would only take 5 yos who have been in P1. It is really, really tricky if parents are both working, kids are in term time only nursery and holiday club provision is aimed at older children.

I don’t think wanting to go to the toilet is a behavioural issue. If he is misbehaving I’d expect to be told about it so that as his parent I can rectify it. Cancelling his attendance the night before because the kid wants to go to the loo is pretty inept.

It doesn't seem so much wanting the toilet but the faffing while he's away and the fact the coaches have been told they have to accompany them.

If you only have say 2 coaches for 16 kids, one keeps having to escort one child to the loo. That's leaving one coach for 15 kids. That's a lot for the coach to keep an eye on.

They are probably also expecting maybe one loo trip with 3 or 4 kids an hour which also means the coaches are never in a 1 to 1 situation. But one kid going every 30mins leaves that coach in a 121 which they should never really be.

Not an incorrect definition, but certainly not the definition the OP meant, in retrospect!

I do understand but to not be given the opportunity to sort it out is shoddy. My just turned 4yo would understand. Pretty sure a 5 year old would. It’s not that difficult a situation to rectify really.

@Sugarfree23 the woman who runs it in 50’s the other two coaches 20’s definitely one possibly 30’s and closer to my age for but dresses trendy would need to see without sun specs on to be sure but 110% not teens.

My experience is quite the opposite, most parents I know want their children to have skills beyond those they can offer themselves / school offers so therefore send their children to specific clubs such as sewing, swimming, piano, riding, etc to learn a skill not to cover childcare.

Tennis club is the same, my children want to learn to play tennis so they attned leasons not because I need them looked after 6pm on a Friday evening, I most certainly don't!

OP, did you manage to come to a resolution with the club or find alternative childcare? Although I have agreed with them reserving the right to not accept your child, it was very unreasonable of them to leave it until late the night before to notify you that he couldn’t attend. That was really shitty of them to do that to you. Hope you managed to sort an alternative and get to work today 💐.

Quite frankly it sounds like your little darling is being a bit of a pain in the arse.

Maybe they had to give up taking him to to the toilet if it was happening too often and disrupting the rest of the activity.

You can dispute it all you like but you need to read between the lines here. Your DC requires too much looking after / attention for the club to deal with. They'd rather forgo his fee than deal with him. You cannot demand they take him, in fact the more you protest, the more its making you look bad.

Clubs and play schemes don't have the same level of inclusiveness that schools do, they tend to weed out the disruptions to be able to take the money from the majority.

I saw that thread too.

Your DC requires too much looking after / attention for the club to deal with. They'd rather forgo his fee than deal with him. You cannot demand they take him

I think this is probably the case. Although I accept the short notice is frustrating. Sometimes these things can be cancelled at much shorter notice though, ie bad weather, lack of staff due to illness etc. Surely most parents are aware of this, and have contingencies in place? In this respect, it is certainly not the same as childcare or nursery/school.

I’ve read all your updates and to be honest even if the child is going off by themselves to the toilet every 10 minutes (and then wandering off then) this means he’s either been allowed to do this by the organisers or they can’t come with him every time but he still wants to go.

I’ve got a DNephew of a similar age and he will either want/not want to go to the toilet and wants or doesn’t want someone with him. No idea about how school handles it. He’s also of the age/character to wander off or explore too.

They shouldn’t have taken your DC on though if they know it’ll be hard to cope with. I do think they should have also emailed or contacted you in other ways so you’re not stuffed for holiday clubs.

The organisers know he's making repeated toilet excuses which are not about needing a wee. From their POV that implies
A) the kid is not engaged in the group activity program
B)He's an attention seeker distracting staff time and attention and and disrupting the other kids
C) they are worried he might just bunk off
D) they won't risk that.

Second chance??? I'm quite sure they've already spoken to him several times with no effect.

From taking my DNephew (just turned 5) he’d love to do this but probably wouldn’t cope. The other child he met in a pool with me recently was 6 months older and they both splashed around playing sharks with us but no actual swimming, and coveting each others Marvel/bat man swimsuits, float boards etc!

Agreed. No matter how much the child likes the activity a lot of teachers (DM was one) don’t like teaching children this age as you do have to baby them/look after them a bit. Concentration span can be short too etc.

Not surprised especially if they have to stop start the lessons when this child goes to the toilet a lot that they’re now saying no. Yes it’s good that he’ll listen to you but if they’ve spoken to him more than once about this how can they guarantee that he’ll listen after you’ve spoken to him about this?

But these clubs are not childcare. Not in the same way that childminders/nannies/nurseries are. They are a club run for the benefit of the child, to learn a skill, socialise, have fun - or whatever the objective is. They may come in handy as childcare, but that is not their purpose. And parents need to understand that they may occasionally be cancelled at short notice, and that clubs may not be staffed sufficiently/may not want to deal with children who are disinterested or disruptive.

And plenty of parents will pay for these clubs, even with a choice. Because they want their child to have these opportunities.

Agree. It’s on most threads I see. And it’s often expressed by seemingly intelligent/educated people too. Not everybody has the same life or experiences!

OP already said, she was busy at work and may have missed calls.
If she saw missed calls from the tennis coach number surely she should have contacted THEM?

Tennis club on Friday at 6pm is different to holiday tennis camp that's 9-3 in the holidays.

These clubs are the only childcare available to many working families. Just because others use them when they don't need childcare, or because they don't want to be childcare, doesn't stop them being often the only childcare around. So people will depend on them. Obviously, if you have the luxury of back up/plan b/can afford a nanny, then great for you. But there is a hole in childcare for school age children, and in Scotland, nursery class is part of school and not dissimilar to reception elsewhere. There's a gap, and the DWP and society at large expect parents to use these activities to fill that gap, while working, while also being at home in case, while also making sure their children have a fun holiday, while also helping them keep up their school skills, while also... Denying that these clubs are childcare helps no one, and is dishonest. Often these clubs are the only childcare.

Well yes but the poster I replied to said - If OP hadn't been checking work email in the evening (stop doing that) would they have turned your child away tomorrow? Suggesting that they hadn’t made appropriate attempts to contact her, when they had. I was saying what else could they have done.

Bonkers 😂

@Walruswithbraces and @YogiBearAndBooboo

My apologies. I obviously didn't express my self very clearly.

The OP said at some point that she didn't think SAHMs would ever use these clubs, they are clearly aimed at working mothers (paraphrased). My point was exactly the one you two have made more eloquently - that it's not reasonable to generalise like that. That every home and family dynamic is different and we all do what works best for us.

@FeelingwearyFeeelingsmall yes, exactly. Every family set up is different, and we all struggle in different ways.

The organiser told OP he was going to toilet evry 10/15 mins, sometimes with staff and sometimes just took off by himself.

They can't take the risk of a 5 yr old wandering off alone to public toilets.

I'm quite sure they've already spoken to the kid saying "You can't go to toilet every 10 mins" and "you're not to go there by yourself." Its had no effect.
No wonder, as OP says this is a stunt he pulls all the time even with her.

@2bazookas bloody hell!!! No they never tried to flaming call me of course would have called back FFS!! Honestly. What o meant was I gave them my work email for belts and braces as I am often on long calls on mob which unless I know number won’t cancel - will listen to voicemail but am more often than not say at computer on those calls so would see an email pop up.