To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

Nurseries always write overly positive feedbacks for all the children. That's what they are supposed to do (and it is a nightmare to deal with annoying parents who will complain if little Timmy's report is not glowing enough (I have been working with children for years, I know what it is).

The fact is that the toilet shenanigans have been going on for a while. No one blames your child for being a child, or thinking he is a little shit. But maybe you as a parent need to teach them not to do that. I read all your posts and you seem to be that kind of "yes but" parent, always finding an excuse to your child. And it's always those children that are so challenging to deal with.

Your son should have known better than doing what he did (he had been told already at school) and it's fine to tell him he's not allowed to go back because he kept on being nosey and pretend to go to the toilet, he will remember next time.

It’s a business and they are losing money/ potentially going against safeguarding policy by having to provide a member of staff to escort your son to the toilet for three hours.
They’re not legally required to provide you with childcare. Their priority will be to provide safe care and effective teaching which they can’t do when they’re a member of staff down.

OP, just let this go. Lots of chilled out fun for the rest of the holidays. Reception class will be quite the learning curve, in so many ways. Or is he continuing with his specialist schooling?

They shouldnt be taking 5 year olds. Equally, you shouldnt be sending your kid. Its too soon. Both at fault.

Completely disagree
Lots of clubs run these sessions to recruit young players, for either the benefit of the club....new talent coming through to help them be competitive, or new learners for class fees.
Some just do it for the love of the sport and wanting to help kids.

These clubs are classed as childcare by parents who have no respect for the coaches or the establishment, they just want to dump their kids at something where there's adults for x number of hours so they can go to work. They have a feckin nerve and if their kid messes around and disrupts it for the other kids or the coaches they couldn't care less.

It must be so disheartening to be a coach.

If they are not geared up for young children they should set an age restriction and enforce it. I suspect the issue is that they are not able to supervise random toilet breaks and it may even be a safeguarding risk to allow them to leave the court. Do they group them by age? How secure is the club? Annoying but maybe they are doing you a favour by not putting your dc at further risk.

I’ve worked in tennis for 14 years, I live in the area of the country that has more tennis clubs per mile than anywhere else in the UK & I know people working as coaches in all of those clubs & across the south east.
we discuss our business frequently. Yes holiday camps bring new kids to the sport & to our term time coaching but bottom line is they are childcare & that’s what the coaches expect to provide over the summer

I think the problem is he hasn’t been to school. Their policy is 5 years but really they likely mean “and having completed P1” which they should make explicit. There is a huge difference in children between final year of nursery and first year of school. They practically spend most of P1 teaching children how to behave in a large group setting helping with focus, listening etc.

From your posts it seems like you’ve been searching for any kind of childcare for a few hours and have found most are not accommodating to those not yet at primary (hence the age 6 requirements) and this one was available. It’s not worked out and your child isn’t a good fit for this class at the stage he is at. It sounds like your mum is involved in this club and your son enjoyed enough that you’d consider using in the future so I wouldn’t burn any bridges but just let it go as a misfit at this stage. They should have tried to telephone you to discuss but likely went by the details on your emergency list.

it is a sad fact that there is very poor provision of holiday childcare available hence us parents desperately trying to book our kids into clubs and activities to cover a few hours when really we probably wouldn’t send them to it otherwise. It’s a really difficult situation and for those who cannot take holiday or have relatives to provide childcare it’s extremely difficult. I don’t think a 5year old who hasn’t been to school really is a good fit with a tennis club for a wider age range of primary children. They need actual childcare.

It’s not really an age issue.

Most five year olds would have no problem joining in without the need for multiple toilets breaks throughout a three hour session.

On the other hand, there’s some children older than that who would cotton on to the fact they can interrupt the session and repeatedly use the toilet to cause a bit of a nuisance.

It’s perfectly reasonable for a business to assume five+ year olds could attend a three hour session without issue but it’s also reasonable for them to revoke that attendance if their behaviour warrants it.

It's not childcare, is a summer club for kids, to start to install a love of sport in them at an early age, and perhaps to give them a chance to try out something new, or improve at sport they already play.

If it was childcare, it would run all day, not just for 3.5 hours. While it may be helpful as a short session of childcare for working parents, that is not its primary purpose, and shouldn't be relied on as such. And the fact that some parents are only seeing it as childcare says a lot about the attitude that some parents have.

My DH used to run (as a volunteer coach) an after-school football club at primary school. Occasionally, perhaps once a term, it would have to be cancelled, due to illness or bad weather. The number of parents who thought the school should therefore offer an alternative, such as games in the school hall, was staggering. Because they were very much seeing it as childcare (which most certainly was not!) rather than a club run for the benefit of the kids.

Read my post from a couple of minutes ago

I did read your post, and I find it hard to believe that a tennis club provides these sessions with childcare being the primary purpose. If this was the case, why do they not do all-day sessions? Do they restrict the members of the club to those with working parents only?

I'm a volunteer cub leader, and run occasional activity sessions/camps for the cubs over the summer, or at weekends during term time. These are primarily run as an activity for the children, if they double up as convenient childcare, that's fine, but it is certainly not the primary purpose. And if any parent thought that was the case, I'd most certainly put them right. I'm not a babysitter.

Once in 14 years & thousands & thousands of tennis sessions I’ve had to tell a parent we couldn’t take their child - due to the child having severe learning difficulties & not speaking/understanding English (both parents had limited English)
If this club can’t deal with a 5 year old mucking about going to the toilet then they are the problem & are not doing their job properly.

If this club can’t deal with a 5 year old mucking about going to the toilet then they are the problem & are not doing their job properly

If the child is mucking around, then it's probably a sign that they are not really engaged with the activity. If there are limited numbers, then I can quite understand why they may wish to offer the place to a child who does want to be there and will engage.

I'm not blaming the 5 year old, it sounds like it's just not for them, and that's ok.

We have approx 800 children over the summer holiday - we don’t ask why they are booking. Like all other tennis clubs we advertise fun tennis/sports camps for all abilities. It’s very clear it’s not coaching. The format is fun games that any kid can do Some kids come every holiday & never pick up a racket at any other time.
I think a lot of people are confusing coaching sessions with holiday clubs

@peoniesandpumpkins

Sorry if I've missed it - what did you do today in the end? Did you speak to the coaches?

Not confusing anything. It's a legal distinction, and if these are registered businesses I am certain they are registered as tennis clubs/coaching not childcare facilities.

most will be registered with ofsted so that they can take childcare vouchers over the summer - very few don’t take those as a form of payment

Quite.

For example this one, not far from me - Ofsted registered as most places are now for tax free childcare reasons

https://www.active-tennis.co.uk/holiday-camps

Of course in your area it may be different but I just checked the email I got from our local tennis club and it quite clearly says "AxxxxxBxxxxxTennisCoach - Coaching Camps"
They take 4 & 5 yrs for just 1 hrs per day. From age 6 they can stay all day.

The athletics club and netball club also run holiday camps...they are run by volunteer coaches and older teen players and all the funds go on minimum wage for the teens and room hire etc. Any extra goes to club funds.

I may expect them to care for my child. I may even use it as childcare while I do something else, but I am absolutely clear it's a coaching camp

Clubs run by volunteers are totally different, I’m talking about big tennis clubs run as a business.
The example above is in Windsor, mikes away from me & yet the same set up - big advert say they take childcare vouchers

And as I said - holiday clubs ARE NOT coaching camps. What the coaches go in a coaching session & what they do at holiday clubs are totally different

I am sure provision varies across the country - I am not suggesting that the volunteer run stuff doesn't exist in some areas, but I don't understand why some posters can't accept that other areas have holiday clubs that are based around an activity but are also childcare and quite clearly understood as such by everyone

most will be registered with ofsted so that they can take childcare vouchers over the summer - very few don’t take those as a form of payment

Ofsted does not exist in Scotland.

Children who turned 5 in Scotland between 1 March this year and now will not start school until August.