To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

'They' is perfectly clear and correct English and only "annoying" if you have certain...fixed irrational views.

I think going as far as to say my definition is dishonest! My reality is different to yours.

These clubs or childcare or whatever you want to personally define them as are private enterprises, therefore are free to set their own mission statement and attract people to their business how they wish. You nor I can not speak of their collective use.

Whatever way you cut this, they are providing tennis for children to learn tennis and they are able to fill the spaces / make a profitable business from providing tennis. They are not a national service provided for free to meet the needs of generic children. Perhaps if there is such a need locally there is a business opportunity to provide what ypu are defining this as being, maybe even grants are available to aid that there are plenty in England who do just that.

This child is not attractive for this business to care for and as is seen here, problematic children are removed from attendance - that is the nature of private enterprise.

I love incredibly self directed children (speaking as someone who works with 2-4 year olds). It's fascinating to watch them play, make and have ideas

And that's great, nothing wrong with that in the right setting. But a tennis coaching setting with older children is probably not the right setting for an incredibly self directed 5 year old. Not a criticism of either side, it's just that it sounds like it's not right for him.

I think you meant to ask @LadyGrinningSoul85

@VisionsOfSplendour I'm so sorry!
Yes that was for @LadyGrinningSoul85

What I'm getting is, they said he's great to your face, secured your money.
And then said he can't come..... sounds like a bit of a scam
Personally I'd keep going. And say something like"you haven't made reasonable adjustments, and it's unprofessional to hide a safety issue from us- his parents instead of looping us in only to basically cancel his membership less than a week after taking our money for said membership.

And if they say it's what you agrees to say you want to see the contract, because while any contract will be biased towards the one who writes it, it has to be reasonable to the other party as well.

If they can't handle what is pretty typical behaviour for a 5 year old

It's not typical for a 5 year old with no additional needs to ask to go to the toilet every 10-15 minutes. In the absence of a medical issue, it suggests that they are not enjoying the activity as much as they claim, and they are essentially taking up a significant amount of time for staff who are either taking them to the toilet or finding them after they have wandered off. In that situation,no wonder the club have asked him to leave. Ideally it shouldn't have been at such short notice, but it has been and all the raging in the world won't change that.

I'll be going back to BC myself.

What's that phrase... ah yes, "it's not an airport, you don't need to announce your departure". Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

@Gillbil thing is you can’t just force your kid in if they say no they are not willing to take him. OP should receive a full refund for any subsequent sessions that the club is not willing to accommodate her child though.

Let’s be clear, even though it says tennis it is childcare - the parents know that & the coaches know that. Nobody is running tennis camps for 5 year olds expecting them to learn a lot of tennis over the summer holidays!

OP I think the most important thing here is to please try not to take this personally against your child. It sounds as if they're simply not ready for this type of environment yet and that's fine. Lots of children wouldn't be, especially if they haven't even started school. I don't think you need to chastise him for it but if he's disappointed that he can't go any more I think you do need to be very blunt with him and make it clear that this is a direct consequence of him being disruptive explain that the class is for lots of children who want to learn to play tennis not be constantly waiting for him to go to the toilet. If it's for the purpose of childcare I would stick to more nursery-style daycare. If it's for a hobby I'd enroll him in a weekend/after school class so that you have more control if he's removed or you have to remove him yourself and be very clear with your boundaries I say this as the parent of a similar 5YO. Your child sounds lovely and smart and developmentally pretty typical so please don't take pp's comments to heart. It's a shitty thing to have happened but just learn from it, move on and don't give that club your business again.

There’s no harm in trying it out no, but you tried, it didn’t work out and now you can’t seem to just let that go.
Reading his ‘little glowing reports’ and artistic abilities with watercolours aren’t going to change the fact that a child running off to the toilet every 10mins is causing a disruption. Of course the club can’t have that! It’s dangerous and isn’t fair on the other kids. Also irrelevant how they contacted you, you seem fixated on details but the outcome is still the same…

That's true, I guess. But it's a shame they didn't notice that on the first day instead of happily taking the OPs money. Or dealing with the issue properly.

Sounds to me like someone realised he was going off to the toilet on his own (how far away? Safeguarding alert!) and decided to nip this whole thing in the bud by getting rid of him instead of dealing with it properly.

What I'm getting is, they said he's great to your face, secured your money.
And then said he can't come..... sounds like a bit of a scam
Personally I'd keep going. And say something like"you haven't made reasonable adjustments, and it's unprofessional to hide a safety issue from us- his parents instead of looping us in only to basically cancel his membership less than a week after taking our money for said membership

It's only a scam if they refuse to refund monies for sessions that they are not allowing the child to attend. I assume they will refund, OP hasn't said either way.

Reasonable adjustments only have to be made in the case of medical or additional needs, surely? Not just because the child wants to go to the toilet all the time, as they are not engaged in the activity.

What you also might have forgotten is the pressure exerted by the dozen or more other parents.
Those who asked their children how it went, and listened to the whinging about losing their teacher every five minutes and how it wasn’t fairrrr and how they didn’t have time/get a turn and the rest.
And the parents who might well have emailed to complain about inequality, and inappropriate behaviour and littlies at a tennis camp.
Which might account for the lateness of the email the OP received. The majority of parents focus entirely on Their Beloved Child and prioritise their wants above all others. So the business had to make a decision, which they did.

Some of you are the reason it's so hard to run child clubs now and why people just don't bother any more.

You feel entitled to them providing childcare, even when they aren't a babysitting service but a service provider. You give them details to use then moan they don't use the "right" ones but are using the ones as directed by YOU. You don't care about the safety of the other children so long as your DC is attended to. You're convinced they are scamming.

And worst of all are the ones who are saying that, even though you have been clearly told the child cannot come (it's not a never, just a not now) you should just turn up with the child anyway! Trying to guilt trip the organisers into keeping them regardless of the safety aspect (they may have filled his space already and no space for one more) and the fact you've been told no! That's entitlement at its finest!

My son did after school tennis for a term and a couple of the other kids were such buggers for this! Kept going for a wee, stopping for a drink. An hours lesson was reduced to probably 20 minutes, no exaggeration!

annoying that they’ve not spoken to you but even more annoying for the other kids who are being affected!

@AnObserverInThisDarkWorld 👏👏👏

YABU to write such a confusing post. DC age unclear till the end, you mention pre-school and constant toilet visits then reveal that DC is 5. Surely children stop going to pre-school and start proper school at 4?

Also the use of 'they/them' (except for the one time in the second paragraph where you slipped up and said 'he') is really annoying and just adds confusion to the post. I can see that you've switched to now using 'he' in your updates, so even more baffling. I really wish people would stop this.

I think the joke about 'oh he knows where the toilet is' should have made you aware that he was visiting the toilet a lot more than average for a child his age. Are you sure he's ok? Could he have an infection or something? I'd be a bit concerned if my 5 year old was using the toilet so much that a holiday camp decided it was too much for them to deal with.

Agree with PPs on the email, it was a clear and direct way to communicate 'on the record'. Just because you signed up with your personal email doesn't mean they'll necessarily have it on their forms. You gave them your work email as a contact so that's the one they'll have written down.

She told that to his face? If yes, you might want to accept the fact that you and your family are the kind of people so stressful/rude people try to put up with but end up having a panic attack at 8 pm in the evening and send an email to ask not to come back...

That and the fact that your child seem really unmanageable. Honestly, their reaction tells me that the trial week was a nightmare. They don't refuse money for the love of refusing money.

@PinkStarAtNight only in England, I’m actually pretty sure there’s not many places in the world that start them at school at 4….apart from England, so maybe get a bit more informed before writing snooty posts!

It's baffling to me that anyone is defending the email communication - late the night before, it is not an appropriate way to communicate an urgent message because how are they to know it's even been received?

Absolutely!

If this wasn't being used as childcare would it really have been such a big deal to get an email at quarter to nine?

Our local sports related summer clubs /play schemes won’t take children who aren’t yet at school even if they’re already 5. It seemed unfair at the time as my then 5 year old would have loved some of these clubs and I’d have loved the couple of hours peace to do some work but the reality is that preschoolers at 5 do not have the same maturity or behaviour skills as those who have completed a year of primary school. It’s a huge difference when it comes to group compliance of the kind required in tennis coaching.

I get it’s upsetting and annoying but the reality is your child isn’t mature enough and the staff are not pre-school or childcare specialists, they’re tennis coaches.

You ought to choose more age appropriate childcare if you’re not there to supervise them yourself.

@diddl I think the late night email was handled really badly by the activity provider, I myself would have been sending that as soon as I got home if it was not possible to have a discreet word at collection time away from the ears of other parents and children. I do however think that there has been a huge increase in the sense of entitlement in the last few years that we (activity providers) should have to tolerate all kinds of nonsense from both children and parents.

@Sammymommy of course she didn’t say it to her face….🙄🙄🙄, and don’t tell me you’re all sweetness and light behind people’s backs!!! Aye right!

That was my Mum’s response to me when I told her how much it was.

So many so many judgmental leaps!!! They’ve never even met me or my partner. There was one single email where I sent in filled in an word doc with sessions marked and asked if I could hold off paying for all until first one was okay. Literally that, response was. ‘Yes, absolutely. Thanks’

neither myself or DH have spoken the woman who emailed me in person and when I dropped off I basically said hi this peonieschild, thanks, bye. To one of the coaches on the two mornings, I was rushing to work. If I spoke to them for 20 secs that’s probably a stretch. My DM spoke to the organiser at pick up and does know her. Mum is lovely and well liked.

A lot of you seem to be insinuating that I have behaved in a way previously to them that has been difficult so that I have some kind of form which means they have been entitled to treat me and my child in this manner and that is just a ridiculous stretch!! Don’t know the bloody woman from Adam!