To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

I think what it seems like you’re most annoyed about is that you’re treating this as childcare. It’s a broken system where mothers are in this position in the first place and it’s wrong. Advice from child’s protective services perspective, I really wouldn’t have my little kids in clubs I wasn’t able to watch the whole time, it’s where a huge percentage of abuse happens, really not worth the risk. This child is too young for this, if you can afford to, and I’m aware that this is a luxury in this broken country, take some time off or try and find an alternative.

@Mumof2teens79 he goes to a specialist preschool it’s not daycare or preschool like the English settings which are an extension of dacare, there is definitely no running about like a loon, and I’ve been in and seen for myself many a times…I’m always quite surprised but there you go. All there reports are definitely not glowing! Believe me.

He likes to draw thank you very much, his report also said he’s been doing watercolours so I think his fine motor skills are neither in question.

Some of these comments are so mean and are making him out or be a little shit and us difficult parents, just not the case.

I agree OP.

I'm sorry for some of the comments you've had & the judgment of your (very small!) DS. I'd be upset reading those.

I really think the camp have been appalling. All they had to do was speak to you (or DH / DGM) earlier & explain.

If it was really ongoing & a challenge, then that's different.

But it really doesn't sound so bad, and like I say, never in all my years of kids' camps have I seen a kid asked to leave - and I've observed some weapons! It's really not a thing here (Ireland)

I really think the posters who extrapolated to your DS overall behaviour at school, his personality & calling you That Parent should be ashamed.

I hope you managed to talk to the camp organisers, but more importantly I hope DS is ok & you find something for him. And I hope you're ok too. 💐

I just do not understand this type of post (there have been several making the same point).

It's childcare in the sense that between x & y hours said child is being looked after by a responsible adult.

Every parent managing summer holidays treats it as such. Sure, you'll have to organise additional childcare if you work but of course, if you book DC into a camp, that takes care of childcare for those hours.

What else would it be doing???

Some comments here are crazy. I was always a strict parent and had high standards of expected behaviour. But the judgement of this child is quite strong, based on limited evidence.

And this place has given OP no notice. It’s unclear exactly what happened. She at least deserves a conversation about it, and even a plan of how to manage it. Not a rigid non-negotiable cancellation hours before. The child was apparently doing ok and managed the class on the trial day.

Email is a poor medium for this.

Do you helicopter over a five year old all the time? Sounds stifling and controlling. And of course a huge percentage of abuse doesn’t occur in clubs like this. It’s usually much closer to home.

I can see both sides. I used to run a setting and it's a nightmare when you get frequent toilet visitors as you can't take your eyes off them. And it does truthfully mean that other kids aren't watched/engaged with as closely. (My grandaughter aged 4 is obsessed with different toilets and days out with her are frankly a nightmare)

But it's a bit shit to email you about it and not talk it through in person.

What's your source for a huge percentage of child abuse taking place in holiday sports activities?

I find that very difficult to believe as by definition they only happen for a very few weeks of the year, how could that be accounting for anything remotely "huge", by which I assume you must mean over 50%.

What's really striking is that your posts show no understanding or empathy for the disruption and stress caused to staff and other children; yet you expect all of them and us to be supportive of you and your wee princeling 🤷‍♀️

Well in this case teaching tennis skills. On account of being a tennis camp.
See also:
Drama camps, football camps, watersport camps, music camps etc etc

Your send your child because they get to participate in something they enjoy and build skills

Your kid is practically taking up a whole member of staff on their own. So
much so that they’d rather lose your money than lose a member of staff for the entire day.
YABU

I think this is probably the case, why else would they turn down income?

Yes, they've handled it wrongly but at least you know for the next time that you need to be clear with your child about expectations before he goes to anything similar.

Tbh though it does sound like he's too young, a 5 year old who has been at school for a year would be a different matter

Tbh I’ve worked at holiday camps and there are always a couple of the younger ones who want to go the loo the whole time. And it’s not because they want a nosey(?) at something or because they need it every 30 minutes..it’s because they’re bored/restless and want a change of scene. And if they are bored and want a change of scene that regularly then I would agree that that particular camp isn’t quite right for them yet.
But that lack of notice is very poor.

They* not they're. Autocorrect fail.

Hahaha yes OP, take no notice of the horrible judgmental posts.

Just read this one that’s so kind, understanding and open minded.

What a joke.

This type of activity will be staffed at age 5+ ratios not the lower ratios your kids are used to in a preschool setting. The toilets might be a short walk away from tennis courts in a building.

Kids ask to go to the loo all the time when they aren't engaged/struggle to maintain concentration. If yours are doing this its probably because they aren't quite old enough to manage the activity at that staffing level.

How are you working out the age of the posters from their posts? That's quite the skill you've developed in your brief experience of MN

Switching between they and he is both annoying and makes posts harder to read, I'm pretty sure there's little correlation between commenting in that and the newspaper someone reads, how does that work if they read several or none?

I'm not familiar with babycentre but if it doesn't allow posters to have their own opinions I won't be looking it up

They should have flagged this to you before so at least you had a chance to have a word with him and give him a chance to go. But as you knew this was an existing issue with him did you speak to him before he went and say no running off the toilet every 5 minutes?

If you clearly knew he has a tendancy to do this, surely you had already had a word with him about it? Expecially as even Gran brought it up.

Your child is being disruptive and annoying to the staff and other kids, maybe they should of told earlier in the day but that's the only thing you could be a bit put out about.

As someone who has worked in education for a million years, I think the phrase 'incredibly self directed' speaks volumes about what's happened here.

I love incredibly self directed children (speaking as someone who works with 2-4 year olds). It's fascinating to watch them play, make and have ideas. These are not the ipad dependent kids. You can just see the natural curiosity, experimenting, creativity pouring out of them. They often don't require much adult intervention because they're happy getting on with it. Yes, sometimes they need to learn what is and isn't ok (eg. covering yourself with soap in the bathroom) but it's very rarely malicious bad behaviour.

You sound like my DS's miserable YR teacher who was once described to me as 'sucking the joy out of life'. She did, and sadly she sucked the joy out of my DS too.

@VisionsOfSplendour what does your research say is the average age of a Mumsnetter please?

@MerryMarigold 🤣🤣🤣

I feel for you OP. My now 7 year old has ADHD and is also very curious anyway, and this could easily have been him age 5.

You say your DS would’ve cooperated when the law was laid down clearly/consequence discussed; yes, mine too, but I’ve learned over the years that the majority of kids don’t need this, they just know, or do…so even that would’ve been the club “going above and beyond,” so to speak.

Rubbish timing though, and also poor communication. They should’ve mentioned it on the first day when you asked how it had gone.

Some posters are being a bit harsh, saying about the difference between holiday clubs/childcare - what do you suggest parents do with DC who are too old for nursery? And what about parents of children with SN?

I book mine into a variety of clubs/camps as childcare because that’s pretty much the only option. One is a bit more informal so it’s mainly free play, but that same company took a load of them to the cinema once! Thankfully no one went missing. My DS is probably a bit of a pita at some clubs because of his ADHD. I’ve never once had bad feedback about him though, nor had him banned from a list!