To be raging - school holiday camp

[peoniesandpumpkins]

Booked my DC into the holiday camp at our local tennis club. They’ve just turned the age that you can go from but it’s just 3.5 hrs (they do pre school 2 days 9-3 and 3 days 9-1:30 so used to longer days etc.) It’s not all tennis, lots of games.

They have absolutely loved it. Been twice now. My mum picked up last week (she knows a lot of the coaching team) and they mentioned he’d been great, my mum asked about the toilet and they mentioned ‘oh yes they know where the toilet is’ ‘jokingly’ apparently. We took that to mean they’d been going quite a lot, but at least not peed themselves!! Husband picked up on Mon, great time again. Due to go tomorrow, really excited!

Logged onto work email (not personal) tonight to see an email from organiser sent at 8:43PM saying ‘sorry but don’t think peonies child is really ready for 3.5 hrs of tennis (it’s not 3.5 hrs of tennis) they are more interested in going to the toilet and this impacts on the coaching team’

Honestly, I do know that they can be a little bugger for wanting to go off to loo if they think they can go have a nosey/explore and get away with it. I apologised said as much but, said they love it and that messaging at 8:40 odd at night (to my work email (wouldn’t have seen it ordinarily) the night before was really not great, would they please let me have a chat, let them come tomorrow (really left me in the f’ing lurch) and if more of same then I understand.

They emailed back to say it’s a no as a member of staff has to take them to the toilet each time. I am confused about this as they normally have to be told to go toilet (unless opportunity for boggling - which they wouldn’t get if they have to go with an adult), so I’m like well yes I understand that and that is annoying but I am telling you that I am 98% certain that will stop once I’ve had a word and if it doesn’t then yes I’m in agreement. I just think it’s so shitty not to give them a last chance.

Also I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to have take them to the toilet full stop, as there are 2 children doing it who aren’t quite 5 (one not until the new year) who have been allowed as they have older siblings so surely if it’s an age thing they are having to take them to the loo when they need to go?!? DC quite capable of going on own physically iykwim. Can understand they need to be supervised.

If it was that they weren’t coping/joining in or didn’t have the motor ability then I understand but why not mention that then.

All just seems rather mean not to let us have a chat and give them another chance. Not to mention bloody unprofessional, she could have told me on Monday night or Tuesday night!

What sort of contingency do you expect parents to have?

To book a nanny as well as a club as back up? To give up work just in case?

Ultimately most people's contingency is emergency parental leave/annual leave

Now is the perfect time to explain that no more tennis is a direct result of his behaviour. Behaviour he knows he's not supposed to do because he's done before with OP, been told off for before, and still keeps doing it.

Not really, that’s mean, I believe in firm age appropriate parenting, but not being a dick for being a dick’s sake….that doesn’t turn out well adjusted adults.

Ultimately most people's contingency is emergency parental leave/annual leave

I agree that it probably is the contingency plan in most cases. My point is, that as these clubs are not childcare in the traditional sense, then parents can't really rely on them not to be cancelled or your child removed if they are disruptive etc. I'm not saying it's easy, it's certainly not, and most working parents have little choice, but the clubs are not run as childcare, and it is not the clubs responsibility to worry about what the parent will do if the club cancels the child's place.

It doesn't turn out well adjusted adults to not have any consequences. Sure, he's young, but this is a natural and logical consequence of his behaviour. If you've tried to talk to them about it and they're still saying no, it's a harsh lesson he'll have to learn, but an important one.

I understand what you're saying but this distinction between childcare and non childcare is just not how this operates where I am at all.

Any activity camps which were unreliable would go out of business pretty fast as no one would use them around here, here they are definitely considered childcare.

Maybe areas with loads of non working parents are different

@GonnaGetGoingReturns well given that they’ve not actually spoken to us, nor have they said on email whether they’ve spoken to him or not we’ve got no idea….which is obviously part of the frustration. I will ask whether they have spoken to him and told him he can’t do that.

Just spoke to Mum, One of the coaches said he had been fine and a ‘little rockstar’

aren't rock stars famous for being disruptive/ rebellious /attention seekers ?

It’s not the five-year-old’s ‘fault’ for behaving like many many five-year-olds and in line with developmental expectations! He isn’t old enough to have judged whether the setting was appropriate for him!

Any responsibility lies with the adults who made this decision: mainly the club that decided they could accept all 5yos when actually they aren’t set up to manage fairly typical behaviour of that age. And the poor way they have communicated this to the parent. At a push you could say the parents have some responsibility for putting him in a setting he wasn’t quite ready for. But in no way is it the child’s fault or something he should be punished for. Fgs

It is his fault if he continued to wander to the toilet on his own if, and only if, he was told by those in charge of the program he wasn't allowed to do that. We don't know what went on at that end. Five year olds are old enough to know to listen to those kinds of instructions.

Just sounds that your child isn’t developmentally ready for a more disciplined setting yet.

A 3.5 hour activity wouldn't count as a day camp/childcare type arrangement, and I think you need childcare on top (or a good contingency arrangement)

Thinking about our local tennis camps, which I did use, the loos were v close, but just round a corner so couldn't be seen from all the courts. Also, they were public loos for use by other park users too.

So DC were expected to go to the loo during breaks in the coaching (in groups with a coach going to the loo block with them). Breaking off for a child who cannot cope with going to the loo only during breaks is harder

They probably can't afford extra staff to cover toileting of younger DC (though I would like to know what arrangements they have if they offer eg wheelchair or other adapted tennis at these sessions, or if they can only provide that separately)

It's actually bloody rare for this type of camp to offer places to the u5s (which is a right royal PITA for parents of younger Reception class DC).

It's a shame your DC weren't really ready for it (you don't give ages, but you say preschool rather than school, and that can make an enormous difference in ability to cope with directed group activities.#

So remember also "games" don't mean free play. They are part of the coaching - warm up and cool downs, or the practising of relevant skills by other means. It's possible to read your post as saying that your DC were not joining in properly, and that would be a further reason why this class is not for them yet

Some of these comments are so mean and are making him out or be a little shit and us difficult parents, just not the case.

It’s making me really sad and super wary of sending them anywhere else, as there is clearly pre judgement nastiness out there.

just reading back through his little report from school and it is frankly glowing and with them saying things like ‘he is an incredibly self directed child’ ‘he is respectful of school and ground rules’ ‘has well developed large motor skills’ ‘likes having conversations with peers and adults and can listen and respond appropriately’ ‘he is affectionate and extremely well mannered’ those reports from a setting where he’s been 2 yrs can I be blamed for trying him out with a 3.5 hr activity whilst I worked??

And we did try it out!!! I told them I wasn’t going to pay for the full booking unless the first one was a success which we were told it was?!?

These courses aren't run as 'childcare', but for children to learn or improve on skills in a particular sport. The minimum age may be set at 5 because some 5 year olds are sufficiently interested and motivated enough to benefit from it. However, if your 5 year old isn't at this point yet, you can't expect a sports club to provide childcare as an alternative to coaching. That isn't what they are set up for, however inconvenient that might be.

Not at all saying he's a little shit, OP. We were all kids once and I'm sure we can all remember times where we didn't behave appropriately. If he's been told not to take himself off to the toilet, which you said he admitted he said he did, and he still does it, that is a risk they are obviously not prepared to take. I'll reserve judgement because, like you, I have no idea what went on at the other side of this from the POV of the club. It doesn't sound like you know either. Maybe your son's behaviour, through a bit of mischief or developmental stage, hasn't been appropriate for the particular activity. That doesn't make him a little shit, as you put it. Just a child who is still learning.

I don't think he's a little shit, or you are difficult. I can see why you are frustrated. But to be 'raging' is a little over the top.

At the end of the day, your child has tried tennis club, and it hasn't worked out. Perhaps he's just not ready yet, or not sufficiently interested. It's just one of those things, no-one's fault.

You are coming across a bit as That Parent, I'm afraid. Because you are doing exactly what Those Parents do.

I don't think you were wrong to try out the activity, but I think you come across badly in complaining that the provider thinks your DC is not ready after all.

And I think you're being ridiculous when you say that you're "sad and superwary" after what is a perfectly normal event and very normal reactions to it.

@AuntieStella but that’s not what they said, they told us at 8:45 at night 12 hrs before the next sessions that he couldn’t come back because he went to the toilet too much at the last session which was two days ago, after telling us he got on fine at the trial session. No other info no discussion. Never have they said he’s not ready after all in terms of the actual activity.

Who just shrugs their shoulders and says oh that’s fine then after that?!?

Exactly this.

It's not about him being a naughty kid. This is a situation where, if he'd acted differently, he'd still be able to attend. It is a shame he can't have another chance, but you (as his parent) do not own the tennis camp, so cannot change the outcome. It's a harsh life lesson for a 5 year old, but as the mother of 2 (sometimes very silly) DS, how you respond to situations like these will influence your DS's attitude going forward.

Also, I don't fight for my child to attend places they aren't wanted, so I personally wouldn't do more than walk away.

Are you sure it's not too much for your DC, so he's asking for the toilet to get a break and the sole attention of an adult? Along similar lines, are you sure it's not supposed to be all tennis, but someone is having to do other activities with your DC to stop him from disrupting the tennis for everyone else?

A glowing report of his behaviour in a nursery or home setting has little relevance to a holiday club that he is apparently too young/disruptive for.

He doesn’t sound very engaged if he’s wandering off to the toilet every 10 or 15 minutes. It must be stressful for the adults in charge, trying to run games and having to keep an eye on a child who randomly leaves.

I think it’s your fault more than his as you didn’t go through behavioural expectations with him beforehand. But also, I think he’s too young for the camp and it would be better to leave it until he’s a couple of years older.

That's an issue about their crap comms (did they have a different email address?)

Which is separate to the elements you have also included which make it possible to see you as That Parent. As your DC is not (in their professional view) currently suited to this class, then of course they cannot continue.

How should they have got hold of you during the evening? I can see obvious reasons why they may not want to telephone.

But that's not the providers fault. They are offering the service they want to offer, they are under no obligation to offer childcare or take into account your needs.

Most working parents wouldn't be able to use a service that only covers 3.5 hrs....so grandparents or friends do the wrap around. I used to use clubs like this to give my parents a break in the day.

Have you watched the two Mr Ps tiktok or similar where they explain the meaning behind the words in the report?

I don't think there is anything wrong with your son, he's just a 5yr old boy who hasn't started school yet. But all early years reports are growing. "Incredibly self directed" probably means does what he wants not what he is told, and just takes himself off for a wander.

Well development large motor skills probably means runs around like a loon (especially when he should be drawing and using fine motor skills)

Not an incorrect definition, but certainly not the definition the OP meant, in retrospect!

@IScreamAtMichaelangelos

That's what I meant & why I quoted OP's sentence where it was clear it couldn't mean 'boggling' in the definition you screenshot.