Woman jailed over (very late on in pregnancy) abortion, released on appeal...

[FadeAwayAndRadiate]

Carla Foster: Mother jailed over lockdown abortion to be released - BBC News

So should she have been released? Or made to serve her sentence?

YABU, no she should NOT have been released.

YANBU, yes she SHOULD have been released.

Interested to hear people views.

Or this one: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/26/teenager-murdered-newborn-son-herefordshire-jailed-paris-mayo

You'd support abortion at any stage pre birth? 39 weeks? 40 weeks? When the baby is clearly sentient and viable? How is that different to having the baby then killing it?

Will there? The RCOG can make recommendations, they wouldn’t be the individuals carrying it out. Would you be able to inject the heart of a fully formed viable baby, watch its heart stop beating on a screen then deliver its lifeless body? See its face and hands, knowing you ended its life? If not, why not?

In my experience people who make this argument are making it from the luxury position of behind a screen, knowing they’ll never have to personally be involved with such a messy business, that ‘other people’ will have it on their conscience instead.

If they were handed the lethal injection and instructed to end the life of a 35 week foetus, I guarantee they would suddenly appreciate the moral dilemma behind late terminations, and understand why it is unethical to expect doctors to carry them out as part of a professional ‘duty’.

Equally they can rarely say when exactly this right ends and the rights of the baby begin. When it’s head is born? When the feet are out? When the cord is cut? When the mother has stopped breastfeeding as technically the baby is still dependent on her body for life until then?

‘As early as possible as late as necessary’ is simply a catchy mantra for those who will never personally be involved in the late termination of a healthy baby. And they know that.

If a woman chooses to be a prostitute without being forced by a pimp, then yes it should be legal. It's no different than a woman being a stripper or dancing & doing private dances in a club. Abortion should be legal whatever the state of pregnancy, better that than a child born into this world & mistreated, abused or not wanted. This poor woman should not have been dragged through the courts & jailed for making a decision about her own body.

I think it would be unlikely for them to support decriminalization knowing that they would not be able to meet the needs of women.

I’m not a doctor, so lack the necessary qualifications. Were I a doctor then yes, I would be willing to perform abortions.

“If they were handed the lethal injection and instructed to end the life of a 35 week foetus, I guarantee they would suddenly appreciate the moral dilemma behind late terminations, and understand why it is unethical to expect doctors to carry them out as part of a professional ‘duty’. “

You know full well you cannot guarantee that. Hoping you could and knowing you could are two very different things.

For me there is no moral dilemma, a woman will always takes priority.

You would happily do that would you?

Yes, I would.

Sure

On that basis, a woman who's given birth but decided she doesn't want to look after the baby would be within her rights to kill it...

I don’t require you to believe me 🤷🏻‍♀️

That you don’t accept that doctors will be willing to perform late term abortions, although they already do indeed exist, doesn’t mean that they won’t be.

At that point there are two separate individuals. Location isn’t a minor detail.

There will never be enough willing doctors to make it a valid service, accessible to all. There might be a small handful but that won’t be enough. Most people don’t go into the medical profession to end the life of viable 35 week healthy babies. Most people see this as barbaric regardless of the woman’s circumstances.

Why?

Again, what are you basing this on, aside from wishful thinking?

Because I believe that while a fetus/baby/Steve is in someone else’s body then that person’s wishes should be paramount.

I mean do you have a survey that the public disapprove of arson? No, but it’s safe to assume they do. There’s nothing wishful about it, there is very little appetite to extend the time limit on terminations. It isn’t even remotely on the radar.

What wishes? They’ll have to give birth regardless. The only issue is whether the baby is alive or not. Which, given she can walk out of the hospital and relinquish all responsibility for it, makes no material difference to her whatsoever.

No, you want to assume they do. You’re making a statement solely on your own belief, nothing more.

The RCOG is not going to support decriminalizing abortion knowing they won’t be able to provide the services needed. There are doctors that would be willing to provide late term abortions, and again, there already are (it’s an assumption that those doctors have a moral opposition to aborting a healthy fetus).

Just had a look. Only 5% of the public want the time limit extended (and that’s extended, not abolished). No doubt you will find something wrong with the survey but it’s the best indicator we have so…

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2012/01/24/limits-abortion-time

The point is that it should be primarily a healthcare matter, not a legal one. If this woman had felt able to tell her healthcare provider that she had an unwanted 30+ week pregnancy without fear of legal consequences, the outcome may have been different.

Everyone loses in the scenario that has just happened.

No, there are late term abortion methods that don’t involve a woman having to go through childbirth. Either way, I do believe it should be up to the individual in question.

What has that got to do with anything? Those are members of the public, not doctors.

again, the relevant medical bodies have come out in support of decriminalization.

Decriminalising isn’t the same as providing the service, it just means women won’t face prosecution for doing it, like in this case. Given the public take a dim view of abortion generally, and an even dimmer view of late ones, it’s unlikely doctors will be clamouring to abort healthy term babies even if RCOG say that’s what should happen. Again, abstract versus reality