This isn't our heat wave, but the next one could be

[orangeleavesinautumn]

Or if we mess up the jet stream, arctic winters.

We have really messed up horrifically, haven't we.

I am scared its too late to put right

The population will collapse on its own. This is already set in motion. So comments about "what should we do to make people have fewer children?", "should we withdraw medical care from people at 70?" are as silly and pointless as the arguments about astroturf versus owning a dog versus going on a holiday.

It would serve us all far better to look at what we will do about flooding, water infrastructure, appropriate use of our land to become self-sufficient in food and plans to be self-sufficient in renewable energy.

Go back to reading the light and leave others alone

walked past land that was a woodland chainsawed down to create a cafe the fields next to it turned into astro turf and all the hedges ripped away replaced with metal fencing with a sign we are working with nature. The other day a duck was leading her ducklings along the dual carriage way usually they would come from the river to the woods the weeping willows were chopped down. It’s another piece of green and nature eaten away by urban development. Apartment blocks are being built at break neck speed future is high rise . A green with a playground for children is going to be the car park . I should have joined the march against fossil fuels dependancy we are addicted and plastic is the by product and a lot of its single use its madness but I was a coward. We are just not living in harmony with nature anymore . We seem to have a short term view which is selfish and destructive. Even if u don’t believe the science you have to admit that rippping away chunks of nature and the pollution to air quality for the here and now is a problem. This greed for developing everything based on profit seems to corrupt decision making. We are not protecting the true treasure of the land . Humans need to see and be near green spaces. Nature is almost being seen as an inconvenience that we won’t adapt to it being adapted to suit our needs. Would us having allotments and growing things help? We are so far removed from cultivation with Industrialisation we over produce to waste and go against being in tune with nature. Throwing away meat or fish that has expired I hope this no longer happens . We need to stop wasting resources . It’s bad housekeeping
I feel we can make life better by being more considerate about the bigger picture . I think over packaging , single use plastic seems to come from this fear of people will starve if we don’t industrialise but we have over shot it we are wasting resources and diluting the goodness of food of we could solve this and our energy use . Think about how in this abundance some have too much and others starve. Some just waste. People sit in cars and go to the gym. Everything seems to be outsourced we are units of marketing fodder currently we exist to be sold processes to thats all that counts in our current system . I do rebel against that system. I will reuse, swap, mend and not be sucked in by packaging and marketing. I won’t adhere to the current status symbols. The current perception of luxury is a lie. We are mortal fragile and our shit stinks no amount of gold coating or embossing can change that. We will rot we are matter we are part of the Earth and that cycle cannot be avoided. Disease and Death is being veiled by luxury yet the luxury is creating the conditions for our downfall. We are ment to share resources not hoard them. Rescue, reuse, care about the processes behind the veil. See the waste feel the guilt take time to reflect and pause break cycles of spending and addiction patterns we are triggered constantly to impulse spend treasure time versus consuming. Do some Being instead of Doing.

Well known fact that trees provide shade and attract water via clouds. Of course logic states that both of these things cool the bloody planet down. Our disregard for common sense and the planet speak for themselves:

@SpinCycles
Global population is nowhere near collapse. There are some countries where there is a signifiicant aging population but they haven't collapsed. Fertility rates have declined globally but are still above replacement. And the temporary effect of large number of births despite declining fertility is know as population momentum.
Generally the concern is that ageing and declining populations is among white (and east/se asian) populations and the population which is growing is black as it's only really in much of Africa and pockets of Asia where there is sustained population growth. It's not a fear of population decline overall, it's a fear of WHITE population decline.

You do know what might have cause LE to dip in the last three years? Something that caused excess mortality???
Life expectancy is a PERIOD measure. It means the years a new born would live IF he or she experienced the CURRENT mortality rates, it doesnt' actually reflect a cohort experience. So the 2020 life expectancy is based on 2020 mortality rates for all ages. Obviously, it's going to drop during a period of excess mortality. You can't use these unusual years to make any kind of inference regarding longer term mortality trends.
That said, US LE is dropping due to covid but also the opioid epidemic which is hitting younger people who still potentially had many more years to live. When younger people die, LE is far more affected than when older people die. But that is something they can hopefully get under control.

Prof Bob Watson, UKs leading climate scientist, thinks we will not make the 1.5'C target, will also blow through 2'C and possibly hit 2.5'C.

So whatever we may or may not think on population decline etc, it doesn't matter, we are pumping carbon etc into the atmosphere as if there was no tomorrow.

@helford
Population growth is important in principle as the more people the more carbon produced and the more impact of climate change on humans.
In terms of carbon emissions, it's lifestyle, not population size that is the critical factor, that's true.
I do worry however that some of the countries most impacted by climate change and least able to mitigate its affects (and sadly the ones who contributed least) are also those with the fastest growing populations.

@Phoenixwings1989

”Come, you must enter employment if you want nice things.”

In the 1800s? Where on earth did you get that idea?

The vast majority had to work if they wanted to eat and have a roof, however basic, over their heads. Or else starve, or at best face the workhouse.

The same applied until well into the 20th century.

I dunno what you're smoking, but perhaps you should inhale less frequently.

MsRosley I think A303 was joking. I thought it was funny.

We've got a TV screen in our office that hasn't been turned on for years yet it seems to be on standby. We have a recycling bin but people don't use it properly. I don't say anything because they think I'm weird enough as it is but I take newspapers out the general waste bin and put them in the recycling bin.

No, that's not the case. The birth rate has sunk to a level where there will be exponential population decline in pretty much every country outside sub-Saharan Africa. This includes therefore Asia, South America, north Africa, etc. The data is clear. So you can take your insinuations of racism somewhere else thank you.

I actually agree on a lot of this. And have posted elsewhere that what is incoming is not being discussed.

The population decrease part I’m need more info, in part due to AI changing landscape.

But mass displacement will happen and the rest is more likely.

I don’t have firm views but I agree that the issues around security, and also defence are going to dominate.

Yes. As several times in history the UK's geography will afford it a little protection in terms of defence (a national largely of islands) and also being unlikely to suffer the worst heat, or water shortages. However, that will not help if we don't do the preparation.

Where are the new flood defences? Where are the new reservoirs? We've not built one in 40 years. Water shortages in one of the rainiest countries on Earth?! We have no system to move water around the country as required, endless sewage spills, leaks, we are wastefully processing all water even for flushing toilets to drinking water standard. Rainwater collection systems are not being used, it is wasted.

We have a country ideally placed for renewables with a lit of wind and surrounded by coastline, yet import hydro power from Norway! We have a national grid that hasn't been upgraded so is at full capacity. Good luck with the move to electric cars. 🤦🏻‍♀️ We have no proper energy storage capability so often have to sell excess and then buy it back at inflated prices during surge periods. Where is the scheme to install solar panels on residential homes or community wind turbines?

We are not using our land optimally. It's perfectly possible to sustain the UK population from its own land. Perhaps not with what we would all ideally like to eat, but if it comes to that we'll be glad of having food! But nothing is being done of course to put plans in place for this. Or in terms of diversifying crops that will be sustainable under different weather conditions, etc.

I was reading an article the other day that talked about mass displacement being ‘the elephant in the room’

How are we at the backwards stage of it still being the elephant

I don’t think we’re very good at envisaging what’s going to happen

We are still building roads and rails etc from cheaper materials that melt at over 35 degrees and tarmac that cracks when it freezes. It is idiotic.

Yes, the level displacement I don't think people are comprehending. Tens of millions of people. Totally unprecedented. It will be chaos. Hence the need to be able to be self-sufficient. I would not want to be in mainland Europe, with no sea border.

And water may become one of the world's most precious resources. Yet we squander our abundant supply of it.

You really couldn't make it up, the complete lack of any forethought or planning. And it's incredibly frustrating that people say they are scared about what will happen but do nothing to pressure politicians to make the above issues policy priorities. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Then when it's too late it'll be all "why didn't anybody do anything?".

I agree with you on this and water etc

I’m considering Aus for dc as back up option but maybe it won’t be that much better. Not sure

The uk needs to be self sufficient in food water and energy now and across a range of future potential climate options

We. Can only feed half the population currently - that's losing everyone over about age 45 for those who see killing pensioners as the answer to everything

@SpinCycles

That's total rubbish and not borne out by the data. The world population is projected to keep growing and,indeed, hit more than 10 billion. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.

There is no population collapse. That's just a figment of your imagination.

Aus will be tricky. I have family there. Fires, heat, desert. NZ would be a safer bet. And very far from all of the chaos. Plenty of water, not a huge population.

In the shorter term yes, I've said that repeatedly. Largely because extended lifespans are masking the sharp decline in young people, for now. Then there will be a very fast decline due to the plunging birth rates globally. With respect, I have indeed looked at the data and research on this. It's not something I've just made up on my own.

@LittleApartmentOnThePrairie to be fair I listened to an interview with a spokesperson from Greenpeace and she said the same. Whilst as individuals we should all do our bit, it makes minimal difference unless countries like China change their emissions etc! Sad, but as individuals we have very little control apart from voting in the right parties to power to bring about global change!

Population forecasts 2022 UN

Stabilises and the falls from 10 billion around 2075