Page 29 | This isn't our heat wave, but the next one could be

orangeleavesinautumn · 2023-07-18T07:12:40+00:00

Or if we mess up the jet stream, arctic winters. We have really messed up horrifically, haven't we. I am scared its too late to put right

WestwardHo1 · 19/07/2023 18:22

Dotjones · 19/07/2023 14:57

I stand by what I said, with the younger generations getting smaller and smaller, we simply won't be able to support the older generations as well going forward. A potent version of Covid could mean that the remaining people from the older generations could receive a decent level of care and support. It's cold but true.

I don't know how true that is. As the proportion of elderly people increases versus working adults pensioners will have more of a say when it comes to elections for instance. Governments will have to implement policies that help older people at the expense of workers if they want to keep power. This already happens to an extent, that's why pensions are triple-locked and so on - politicians can rely on people voting for things that benefit them at the expense of others.

In a few decades the tax burden will be much higher and working age people will have to pay much more so that older people can live in relative comfort.

They already do simply because older people turn up for elections more reliably.

WestwardHo1 · 19/07/2023 18:24

helford · 19/07/2023 18:10

Well of course, burning FF 's the number one cause, which is why i didn't say it was number one!

But we aren't going to stop burning them any time soon and Rain forests help regulate the worlds climate, with them gone, which we are heading towards, climate change will be worse.

Its not making things up, the Rain forests are vital to the planet.

I think aiming for things that will not happen & then having silly arguments over things like this, does show we've a long way to go to convince the population we really do need to make drastic changes & very quickly.

Show quote history

It's not just rainforests. It's all forests.

And the oceans' phytoplankton and seagrass is the most valuable carbon sink of all

notimagain · 19/07/2023 18:24

tax on air travel is reduced,

Some APD was reduced, not all.

As I mentioned last night (either on this thread or one of the other parallel efforts) the danger with increasing UK APD, particularly on longer sectors out of the UK, is it encourages passengers to consider using two flights rather than one; a short haul sector into Europe and then long haul onwards from Europe to the destination..

IMO not the smartest move from an environmental POV.....

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/air-passenger-duty-banding-reforms-from-april-2023/air-passenger-duty-banding-reforms-and-rates-from-1-april-2023-to-31-march-2024

Air Passenger Duty: banding reforms and rates from 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/air-passenger-duty-banding-reforms-from-april-2023/air-passenger-duty-banding-reforms-and-rates-from-1-april-2023-to-31-march-2024

Keykat · 19/07/2023 18:38

AmaraTamara · 19/07/2023 12:31

@Keykat
Yes completely agree, inaction is shocking, but just wanted to point one little thing out. Gov did try to introduce tax on ebikes from China. Do you know what happened? They went to set up a fake business in Poland, and starting routing it all from there into UK as Polish goods. Very hard to trace and fight the fraud.

The irony of e bikes being taxed, which might encourage drivers to cycle (up hills!,) I don't have a car, don't need one but I have an e bike. It is great, but I can't remember if it was from China or not. There is so much that could be done, but isn't. Anyway I think international Trade Agreements between UK and China work both ways, so if UK taxed/banned certain imports, China would reciprocate or the UK might be sued under the WTO or something like that.

Back scratching all round. I really do think that investment in public transport and subsidising it hugely would actually encourage more people to use it rather than drive.

I can't solve the problem on my own, but I do my little bit as often as I can.

Givemethereins · 19/07/2023 18:59

VikingVolva · 18/07/2023 08:37

Interesting article on how the jet stream is changing, and what would be the consequences if it's pushed beyond its natural variation.

It is possible this will happen in our lifetimes (within next 40 years) and if we don't take the human factor out of climate change, is highly likely to happen during the lives of our DC

Study: The North Atlantic jet stream could move by 2060 | World Economic Forum (weforum.org)

Of course it will.be in the next 40 years. I mean look at each summer in the last 2 years. Each year climate crisis weather has doubled in intensity by our own experience. We don't need science reports to tell us what the fuxk is going to be like in 5 years, 10 years, nevermore 40 years!!!
What I can't delay with is looking at my children's innocent faces and wondering what their future will be. My 8 yr old is clear she's going to have kids. But I don't say anything because......who the hell knows.

LaDamaDeElche · 19/07/2023 19:08

megletthesecond · 18/07/2023 09:17

Eating less meat means you're less likely to die early too. Look at the Japanese and Mediterranean diets. More veg, less meat and less food.

The Spanish have got one of the longest life expectancies in Europe and a lot of meat is eaten here. Especially a lot of processed meat. I think living longer is mainly due to genetics and then diet, exercise and avoiding bad habits rather than how much meat you eat.

PhoenixIsFlying · 19/07/2023 19:25

"When the well is dry, we know the worth of water." Benjamin Franklin

CMZ2018 · 19/07/2023 19:47

Seek psychiatric help

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 19/07/2023 19:57

Yanbu. The time for meaningful action was 50 years ago. Now all we can do is adapt. And get used to vastly increased levels of immigration from the south.

SpinCycles · 19/07/2023 20:00

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 19/07/2023 16:06

I thought the issue with over population wasn’t people having kids, in fact I thought this continued to be in decline. I thought it was people living far too long that was the issue and keeping population numbers up? So how do we address that then?

That's correct.

You address it through family friendly policies that encourage people to have children. The exact opposite of what has happened for the last 15 years.

SpinCycles · 19/07/2023 20:01

Eventually however the problem of too many older people will correct itself naturally

No, it won't. Because birth rates worldwide are declining, including in the UK.

Threenow · 19/07/2023 20:06

UnmentionedElephantDildo · 19/07/2023 09:42

Life expectancy is not currently rising - it's fallen in the last three years

Those who are aged around 100 were raised in their teens and start of early adulthood under wartime restriction and post war rationing. They ate very little meat in their formative years compared to those before and after them, and had their eating habits formed by it, so life-long they have tended to eat better.

We won't see another generation like it (yes there will be groups who eat that well, but it won't be across the whole national population)

The warnings about obesity meaning lower life expectancy have been around for some years now. Acute covid is still a major cause of death, and the covid effects on cardiovascular system (more heart attacks and strokes) on the brain (earlier onset and more severe dementia) and increasing incidence of diabetes are all going to continue to reduce like expectancy.

Show quote history

Did you miss the bit where I said I am not in the UK???? Interesting that you are an expert on life expectancy in my country when I haven't even said where I am. It IS rising here. Once again, not being in the UK means that, although there was war time rationing here, it was nothing like it was in the UK. This is also a country which relies heavily on agriculture/horticulture in its economy, so I can assure you that the current 100 year olds were raised on meat and have continued to eat it.

Just another example of a poster who thinks what happens in the UK must be the same as what happens elsewhere.

NewNovember · 19/07/2023 20:08

Givemethereins · 19/07/2023 18:59

Of course it will.be in the next 40 years. I mean look at each summer in the last 2 years. Each year climate crisis weather has doubled in intensity by our own experience. We don't need science reports to tell us what the fuxk is going to be like in 5 years, 10 years, nevermore 40 years!!!
What I can't delay with is looking at my children's innocent faces and wondering what their future will be. My 8 yr old is clear she's going to have kids. But I don't say anything because......who the hell knows.

Show quote history

You need some help with you anxiety and stop reading nonsense online.

Chatillon · 19/07/2023 20:11

SunnyEgg · 18/07/2023 08:27

Tbf it’s not just big business it’s consumer demand

Look at any holiday thread, there’s one atm and the Temu threads

Businesses only get big because we use whatever they provide so much

Wrong way round.

Businesses provide what consumers demand. You can't buck the market.

Put your hand up if you are genuinely concerned about climate change but still have a passport?

TheDogthatDug · 19/07/2023 20:13

It was too late to do anything 30 years ago. I studied environmental science at uni in 1994 and was told about what would happen then and now we are here. Too late to do anything, we are fucked. We have a perfect storm of resource depletion, ecosystem collapse and human overpopulation. We have massively overreached this planet's carrying capacity. Enjoy things while you can; it's only downhill now.

Dymaxion · 19/07/2023 20:14

Yes it's scary. My DH is a climate change professor and he said that even if we stopped all carbon emissions today we're still omitted to irreversible climate change - so yes it's too late. He said the focus must be on adapting to it.

@SallyWD I do think we really need to look at ways of mitigating for the impact of climate change, along with higher temperatures, super gale force winds are going to wreak havoc on infrastructure that isn't designed to withstand it, think of transport, most consumables are carried by high sided vehicles, utilities like electricity, most of which is supplied by a network of above ground pylons.

But we should also concentrate on being much better custodians of the planet.

PaperSheet · 19/07/2023 20:24

SpinCycles · 19/07/2023 20:01

Eventually however the problem of too many older people will correct itself naturally

No, it won't. Because birth rates worldwide are declining, including in the UK.

It pretty will though. The birth rate is unlikely to fall to zero. We currently have the "boomers" needing/ starting to need care. They are called boomers as they are the baby boom. Population explosion after the war. Even though the birth rate is falling it will eventually stabilise. To a lower level than we've seen before yes, but after all the boomers (and longer term a couple more generations) the ratio of young and old will be better and the general population of the world will be smaller. If we want to save the planet then that's what needs to happen.

User538765 · 19/07/2023 20:37

It's the Silent generation that are the ones needing care, Baby Boomers go up to 1964, oldest are about 78.

AquaButton · 19/07/2023 20:39

Yeah, it's too late and most people won't change, especially when they see heads of state/world leaders, celebs, million/billionaires etc living the high life "like there's no tomorrow"

It was always going to happen, humans have just brought it forward a tiny bit in earth terms.

I don't fret about it any more but I will continue to do my bit because I don't want to be a wasteful member of society.

SpinCycles · 19/07/2023 20:43

@PaperSheet it has nothing to do with "boomers". It is a global trend that is happening in every country outside sub-Saharan Africa. I posted a link earlier in the thread to a good high-level summary of it for anybody unaware.

SunnyEgg · 19/07/2023 20:44

PaperSheet · 19/07/2023 20:24

It pretty will though. The birth rate is unlikely to fall to zero. We currently have the "boomers" needing/ starting to need care. They are called boomers as they are the baby boom. Population explosion after the war. Even though the birth rate is falling it will eventually stabilise. To a lower level than we've seen before yes, but after all the boomers (and longer term a couple more generations) the ratio of young and old will be better and the general population of the world will be smaller. If we want to save the planet then that's what needs to happen.

Show quote history

I agree with you. Instead of a pyramid it’ll be like a snake with a bulgey tummy

It’s hard for any generation doing the decline part but we can’t just keep going with the pyramid

helford · 19/07/2023 20:45

Chatillon · 19/07/2023 20:11

Wrong way round.

Businesses provide what consumers demand. You can't buck the market.

Put your hand up if you are genuinely concerned about climate change but still have a passport?

Show quote history

Business can drive demand, why do you think they spend so much in advertising?

When you had a nokia 3310, did you yearn for a iphone? no you were happy making calls and sending texts, then they convinced you needed a smart phone and do online banking etc etc.

Same with new and exotic holiday destinations, they advertise them with TV etc .. we then want to go.

TBH Consumer demand rarely drives anything that business don't want you to have.

SunnyEgg · 19/07/2023 20:45

Chatillon · 19/07/2023 20:11

Wrong way round.

Businesses provide what consumers demand. You can't buck the market.

Put your hand up if you are genuinely concerned about climate change but still have a passport?

Show quote history

You’ve just said the same as me…

There’s no difference. We demand it, businesses provide it.

Chatillon · 19/07/2023 20:48

Exactly. Business only exist because people demand.

If you want a successful business always start with the market. Always.

helford · 19/07/2023 20:51

SpinCycles · 19/07/2023 20:01

Eventually however the problem of too many older people will correct itself naturally

No, it won't. Because birth rates worldwide are declining, including in the UK.

Older people don't live as long as new borns.. so the older ones will die off faster than younger people become old & these younger people are having less kids (but not that much less) so the population will fall.

The issue is the transition and how to look after older people, though on present trends, UK life expectancy is falling and we are living unhealthy lifestyles too, i'm always shocked how many tubby people in their 30s and 40s i see around town, they wont live into their 80s, esp if what they put in their shopping trollys is what they eat - processed processed processed.

On Africa, IF it become less able to support its population, birth rates will fall too.