Did we ruin daughter by spoiling

[Daringbear]

Hi,
First of all I'm going to be quite vulnerable and I know this is my own doing so please be nice, even if harsh.
My only daughter is 17, she is 18 at the start of August. She was an incredibly wanted child, my husband and I had been trying for 6 years, several miscarriages, failed IVF rounds, it was emotionally the hardest time of my life. When our daughter was born 5 weeks early, and so desperately wanted all we wanted to do was spoil her. We were 35 and 38 by the time she was born, we had 6 extra years of career advancement so were in a financially good place and could spoil her. We knew we wouldn't have more children so we really put it all into our girl. She was also 5 years younger than her closest in age cousin, of which she only has 3 and all boys, so being the only girl and youngest she was also massively spoilt by grandparents. My husband and I aren't massively social people, we had two close friends who were in similar positions and kids a little older. We live in a town where most people are comfortable financially, the house prices are much higher than the rest of the region, so all of daughters socialising have been with children similar to her.
She was also among the youngest in her year, I was terrified she would feel less than etc. so we pushed our financial limits for piano lessons, ballet, tennis, vocal coaching etc. The best schools in our area were state schools so there wasn't that but we did cripple ourselves financially to ensure she never had to struggle, tutors too from about year 5.
Now to the current point my daughter is due to start university in September and increasingly as I view her more and more as an adult I realise she isn't very likeable, she isn't lazy, she is always busy but never doing anything of worth, we told her to get a summer job, she looked for a day said they sounded boring and gave up, my husband still gives her, an allowance, refuses to stop and I find it impossible to be mad at her. So her summer has been spent shopping, enjoying the sun, playing sports, being with friends, going to the gym etc. nothing actually useful. She also has expensive taste and the only way I can describe it is she comes across snobby, she will talk down to me if she thinks my clothes are cheap etc.
She was very popular in school and sixth form, always had loads of friends and her reputation amongst them seems different than the girl I know. For the year book they got random people in the year to comment on the person and several of my daughters were about her being nice/friendly.
The other issue which is pretty new, she is a massive flirt!! She is very naturally pretty, tall, slim, blonde etc. and she is definitely not afraid to flaunt this. I hate it, she can come across very shallow. She will blatantly flirt with waiters etc. even Infront of me, it turns my stomach.
If I were to sum her up I'd use words like, smart, beautiful and eloquent but also shallow, snobby, stuck up and narcissistic. I hate that these are words I'd want to use.
My husband doesn't see it, still spoils her, has just bought her the most expensive tickets for Taylor Swift and a stupidly expensive laptop, whenever DD asks for money he hands it over, will never tell her off. Prides himself on being a cool dad etc.
I was talking to one of her friends mums when we were waiting to pick them up at the station and she asked if I could have a word with her as my daughter told her daughter she should work out more and she is going to get fat and that obviously upset her daughter. I spoke to my girl and she apologised but the fact she said it all horrifies me. My husband said he didn't see the issue.
I don't know what to do, I feel like I have failed and ruined her!! It was all done is pure love and wanting nothing but the best for her and now she isn't a nice person!!
AIBU to feel like I don't like her? If she wasn't my daughter I wouldn't want to be her friend. What do I do? Can I make this better?

You don't have to do anything, life will do it for you eventually

This. Even if you have spoiled her, if you have also role modelled being a good person, you have to keep the faith that she will have then instilled deep within her, waiting to come out.

What a nasty post. What indication is there that this girl will be universally disliked ? Do you think that because she has lots of friends, is popular, keeps fit, plays sport, keeps herself busy ??? Or do you think it’s because her Mum thinks she is a flirt, is slim or attractive ? Or because her Dad spoils her ? Or because she’s off to University ? Or because on one occasion she was a little blunt to her friend ?

Your husband probably can't give her much more than Johnny Depp gives his daughter, and even she has found a job. Your daughter sounds like of many middle-class kids, so I wouldn't worry.

I think your husband sounds a bigger problem than your daughter!
In a way I'm jealous- I've posted before about feeling bad that I haven't been able to give my dds experiences like travel, or skills in music or tutors etc.
Looking on the positive side she is an accomplished young lady...now its time to send her out into the world, and as pps have said, she'll soon learn! Just try to bolster her independence.

I had a friend a little like this at uni. She was a much wanted baby, older parents, rich as Croesus and would give her everything she wanted. Didn't have to work so had ridiculous amounts of free time, all the designer stuff she could wish for... and access and cash for drugs. All the projects she tried to start herself failed because she could not take any form of rejection or hardship. She tried three different degrees because she would get bored, turn (back) to coke and then have a good time for the rest of the year, before realising she should really get SOME kind of result to show for the years at uni. I don't believe she finished the final degree. She coasted around a bit using her dad to gain jobs at unsuitable (for her) places - who gives an ex-lit student with no final mark a paralegal role off the bat? She never lasted. She still (afaik) doesn't have a "proper" job. Is she happy and fulfilled? I don't know. Knowing her - no.

She comes from a good home, so I am sure life will put her in order. To be honest, I would be thankful she does not do drugs or have druggie or criminal boyfriends!

I am pretty sure I was pretty loathsome when I was that age, when you just do not have any experience of real life. I would not even try to "engineer" her into being a better person - you might make things worse. Maybe just the odd tweak here and there, but listen to her: eg. she looks down her nose at something you are wearing. Maybe humour her and ask her advice on fashion. It might bring you closer together, then you can add your own tuppenyworth...

Don’t feel bad for cherishing your daughter. Giving her lessons in piano, ballet, vocal coaching, that’s all wonderful. You’ve done well. I think you have reason to feel proud of yourself and of your daughter. Your dh may have taught dd that she can act however she pleases and that’s wrong. He needs to get on the same page with you and present a united front. Work out between you what you’ll both say and let him take the lead when you both sit down with your daughter. He should take the lead precisely because he’s been the one to excuse her misbehavior. If you take the lead, she will cry to him, he will side with her, and she will succeed in pitting you and your husband against each other. If he takes the lead, she will be surprised to hear him uniting with you and giving her a talking to. She will be more likely to listen. And she will also respect you more afterward, seeing that he is standing with you and your position.

I hate to admit it but I was definitely a bit like this at 17. I cringe when I think back to some of my behaviour. Try and gently guide her but i think she'll probably grow out of it by herself, particularly at uni. Try not to worry, I'm sure you've done a great job raising her

Yes she sounds spoilt and quite awful to me. Not sure why people are so defensive of her - maybe their kids are equally spoilt. If she was telling their daughters they were going to be fat if they weren't careful then maybe they'd feel differently. Where has she learnt it's ok to be such a rude mean girl?

You seem keen to push responsibility for her spoiling onto your OH but not willing to really do anything about it - just happy that you can abdicate the responsibility while standing around wringing your hands. I think it's too late to do much now to be honest and I'd be very surprised if anything changed anyway.

I think your husband will be the problem here . All the while your daughter never has to earn anything her outlook won't change .

A lot of 17 yo are like this. It’s normal. Uni will give her the independance she needs

I think she would benefit from doing some voluntary work, getting to see a wider range of situations and people

I look back at my 17 year old self and cringe. I was ghastly.

The pp is right, 17 year olds rarely show empathy. They are probably wired to be unlikeable at times so it's easier for them to leave home at this stage.

Whats important is she is liked by her own generation, popular and likeable but obviously not to all as she upset a girl over her comments.

OP says she isn’t very likeable. If you don’t even like your own children you’ve gone very wrong somewhere. She also describes her as snobby and entitled, shallow, stuck up and narcissistic.

That may fly with teenagers, but it isn’t going to work with adults. They’re simply not going to put up with it.

You can be the most beautiful person in the world, have the best education and have everything material thing in the world, but it won’t make you happy.

Her parents have failed to raise a likeable adult, they have failed to raise a child who can cope in the adult life world, and now she will struggle.

That’s one of the cruellest things you can do to a child.

You can make changes to how you are parenting her now that will be massively beneficial for her longterm. I would have a very honest conversation with her and your DH about what changes need to be made and why. One of the biggest parenting mistakes that I have seen from my own parents and the parents of my peers was the failure to teach us about budgeting, tax paying, debt, saving for retirement, stock ownership, etc. It might all seem too far in the future for her but having this knowledge now could plant a seed for future financial success and responsibility.

It sounds like she doesn't have an appreciation for what it takes to have the type of income you and your DH have so having an honest conversation about how hard one has to work to get to your level might be a good step.

For the unkind words to her friend, I would stress how disappointed you are. She made a careless and mean comment and she has hurt someone. We have all said things we aren't proud of and this will hopefully be a lessoned learned for her.

Also, I grew up very similarly to your DD in that I was spoiled, got whatever I asked for and didn't know the meaning of really hard work or money management. In Uni, my first year accommodation was paid for and my uni fees and then for second and third year + my MA degree, I had to pay for my accommodation, food, basically everything. That was a very good learning moment for me.

Having read and re-read your post, I'm missing why you think she's so awful and don't like her. You say that her peers describe her as a lovely, friendly girl and seem to see someone different. So maybe she's different with other people, or maybe you are seeing her differently than others for reasons that are about you.

You don't spoil a child by allowing them to have fun over the summer if you have the resources for that. If she has kindness and empathy (which is imagine she does, as she has friends) and works hard in school (she's doing to uni, so obviously works hard enough) then I struggle to see what in her character you have spoiled. Sure, she is pretty shallow from some of those comments, but many of us are at 17.

She is doing well at school, going to university, she is busy, she is popular.

You sound extremely unkind and judgmental towards your own daughter.
never doing anything of worth what do you want her to do?
The comments about her appearance are awful. It's obvious you don't like her, but she's your kid.

Push her to have a job to earn some money, but frankly, I did crappy jobs when I was at uni, it did not teach me anything at all, was a complete waste of time, I just needed the cash 😂.
They did not add anything to my CV. You are a bit harsh saying you "ruined" her.

Many teenagers have a lifestyle that is a world away from the one we had at the same age. It's weird, but lucky them. They have gone through a pandemic and lockdown at the worst age, so on balance we are the lucky ones.

Well there's your problem...

She's only 17. She's still a child. If she was 22 and still living off mum and dad it'd be a different story, but she's still a minor and presumably still at school. Lots of 17yr olds do have summer jobs of course but if she wasn't raised with the expectation of working (starting with a Saturday job and always knowing she'd need a summer job by a certain age) then it's really not her fault for not knowing that she's doing something wrong in your eyes.

Uni will no doubt bump a lot of rough edges off.

I don't mean to be unkind but it might be worth exploring some of these issues with a therapist and see whether it relates to anything in your own upbringing or the values you were raised with, and how to handle conflict in terms of you and your DH having different values. It also comes across like maybe you unconsciously resent her for not making the most of the opportunities you've worked so hard to give her - are these opportunities you didn't have growing up?

The part about her making a fat shaming comment is the only part that is objectively bad but teenagers say stupid things without thinking sometimes. Hopefully it's just a foot in mouth moment and not a pattern of bullying (since you say she's generally well-liked and regarded as a nice person by her peers).

The part about "flirting" honestly alarms me, and that's the part I think you should discuss with a therapist. She's still very young and naïve and exploring the world and herself as a sexual being. Our society has a huge problem in sexualising young girls without acknowledging that even the most seemingly "knowing" or "flirty" girls are really still very naïve. Look how many MN threads there have been where posters have shared abusive or inappropriate situations that happened to them when they were teenagers, or the many threads where women discuss being in relationships with adult men as teenagers, because they didn't realise they were being groomed or exploited. All teenagers think they are mature and adult but they really are not, and society always, always blames and slut shames blames the girls, and not men who prey on them/misogynistic society in general.

Which is to say, flirting is a very normal natural way for a girl of her age to experiment with the fact she's becoming a woman and is having to learn how adult men and women interact with each other. Your priority is to acknowledge that she's still so young and make sure she's not being put in dangerous situations or situations where she might be taken advantage of. She's not doing anything wrong. Is your discomfort at her flirting based on fear for her, difficulty acknowledging that she's becoming an adult and what that represents for your own sense of womanhood/aging, due to believes about female behaviour/sexual behaviour instilled in you by your own mother, internalised societal misogyny, etc? A lot of women struggle with their daughters becoming sexual women, or have to overcome internalised beliefs they were raised with.

except that the girl is, apparently very popular and has lots of friends.

She was very popular in school and sixth form, always had loads of friends and her reputation amongst them seems different than the girl I know.

Meanwhile her mum calls her all sorts of names. It sounds like a really unhealthy relationship.

Agreed. Some delightfully insane responses already!

I think it sounds as if you are resenting your little girl growing up.

Why is another 17 year olds parent weighing in?

Narcissistic sounds very strong. But incidentally, if you treat her like a privileged princess all her life....

My kids aren’t that age yet, so my wisdom might not be that wise.

But I think she has everything you’ve mention in common with ALOT of 17 yo and similar aged
kids. Young people learn a lot when they go out into the world for themselves. I know I did!

OP's post is very odd. Apart from the comment to her friend about her weight - and I would be interested in the context of that, the rest sounds pretty normal.

It is telling the only person who seems to dislike the girl is her mother. The comment about the flirting is just too weird.

Plenty of kids from financially comfortable backgrounds enjoy the summer after a levels - it doesn't mean they will end up with no friends and addicted to drugs for goodness sakes.

I swear sometimes on mn unless a teen is working down pit - they are considered spoilt.