To think it is wrong for teachers to scream and shout at students

[Scotlandma]

i was thinking today about the behavior of teachers when I was in school (10 years ago) and how some teachers would scream and shout sometimes in students faces.

it never happened to me but I was definitely scared of becoming the target.

does that still happen today? I have a young DC and can’t imagine a teacher screaming or shouting at him I think I’d have the police, ofstead and the department for education on the line!

I certainly can’t manage my child, you’re right. Delighted someone with more authority than me was able to make him
stop and think. She’s my friend and she does a grand job.

We have come a very, very long way from the days when corporal punishment or bellowing were meted out to kids for simply talking out of turn or even just for failing to understand the lesson.

A teacher driven to full-on shouting these days will almost certainly have been ground down by a lot of pretty appalling behaviour, often with little or no back-up from SLT and no available sanctions that the kids actually care about or respond to.

I certainly can’t manage my child, you’re right. Delighted someone with more authority than me was able to make him
stop and think. She’s my friend and she does a grand job.

You're not alone. There are plenty of parents on MN who admit to struggling to deal with the behaviour of their one or two children. And yet somehow teachers are weak if they can't always control 30 other people's children at a time. Teachers are trained, but they do not have a magic wand. Sometimes you can follow every bit of training and use every bit of experience you have and it is not enough to deter bad behaviour.

@RudsyFarmer you win Parenting Fail of the week

🤣

its the only prize I’m winning currently.

I'm
A teacher a shouting is def not allowed this days!

I might just a loud voice every now and again but it is controlled and definitely isn't shouty!!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4851783-angry-shouty-parents-anonymous

There is a difference between a raised voice and abusive shouting to at is out of control.

There was a teacher in my secondary school in the 90s who was definitely the latter. Thankfully he never taught me - but you could hear him from 3 classrooms down roaring at pupils in his class. Once I had art class and he was teaching next door. He was screaming in this kids face and slammed a ruler down on the table so hard it broke. The poor kid wet himself in front of everyone. He was SO loud that our whole class also jumped and so obviously out of control that our art teacher, and the teacher from the class the other side both intervened.

He left the school shortly after.

I had though that was all past - but there was a teacher in my sons primary who was known to be very ‘shouty’ - parents started to hear some worrying reports of her keeping the whole class in over break ‘because I can’, telling the class how ‘I hate boys’ etc. We spoke to the head as a group and she listened to our concerns professionally. No other teacher had any problem with this class at any other time - just this teacher.

Couple of days later, the head witnessed it for herself. The teacher completely lost it with the kids - totally lost control.

She never came back after the end of term.

12 years working in education…the only time I’ve heard a teacher raise his voice was trying to disperse a crowd whilst dealing with a racist incident one break time.

Don’t recall any teachers screaming and shouting when I was at school over 30 years ago…is it really that common?

It’s interesting. When my son left year six and was reflecting, he said that the ‘really good’ teachers never shouted; kids just behaved for them.

Who knows. If I was a teacher, I would be shouting from 9 till 4. Good job I am not one.

Why do so may people think that because they once went to school they know what it's like to work in one? Throwing furniture might not be classed as 'normal behaviour' but definitely is no longer uncommon. Children are being brought up differently; without respect or consequences.

Seeing a great teacher in action will make you think it's really easy. And it's really not so easily replicated. Working on your own, with groups of thirty children at once, and making the hundreds of decisions needed to effectively teach them something, means that your communication and therefore voice is a key tool.

Shouting is usually to gain attention in a loud environment or an act to impress upon a child the serious nature of their choices and shouting at a whole group is different from an individual. Shouting occasionally, and returning to normal afterwards, marks a difference and reinforces a boundary.

I shouted today.
2 Year 6s on a transition day (!) had a fight in the yard. Not a major one but enough that it drew a small crowd. I separated and then absolutely bollocked them in front of 200 other Y6s. They spent the afternoon in isolation. I had not lost control and it was purposeful shouting!

Will they do it again? Probably but they won't do it tomorrow! Plus 200 kids now will think twice before putting hands on each other.

I never shout in the classroom though.

I was never screamed at because I never warranted it... those that got shouted at deserved it and were told plenty of times to rectify the behaviour and didn't!

We need to bring back shouting and teachers actually having some control in the classes when needed of course not being on a power trip.

I think it really depends on why and what they’re shouting tbh, shouting to get attention and stop dangerous behaviour is absolutely fine.

There were definitely some teachers when I was at school who were clearly bullying certain children, I remember the worst example being one grabbing a 9 year old boy by the neck of his jumper and dragging him by it out of the classroom because he told her his mum said she’s a bully when she was trying to humiliate him again for not knowing the answers, she just snapped and it was shocking and completely unnecessary.

His mum then stormed into the class half an hour later and lost her shit at the teacher. The school suspended her for a while and then the boy moved classes.

People now recognise that verbal and emotional abuse towards children is not acceptable. I was a child in the 80s where sadly a degree of emotional and verbal abuse (plus mild physical abuse) from teachers and parents were seen as the norms.

Yep, blame the teachers. Again.

I very rarely shout (and if I do shout, it’s just a “quiet s3!” To get their attention) and I can honestly say I’ve only not had control of a class a handful of times - and all of those times have been with “new” classes where I’ve not had time to build relationships yet.

You do not need to shout to have control of the class. I’d argue that anyone shouting has already lost control of the class.

@Scotlandma - taking a chair off a child in that state is not always easy. Children are surprisingly strong when they’ve got to the point. I grabbed the legs of a chair that a child was trying to throw this week. The child didn’t let go and proceeded to attack me with it instead. Did I shout? Of course I did. The child is lucky I didn’t report them to the police for assault - I have the bruises to prove it.

As a teacher- the blasé sweeping statement that “lots of teachers see their pupils as a hindrance”’is appalling.

The demands of the jobs at the moment are such that the vast majority of teachers who are close to throwing in the towel are only staying for the sake of their pupils.

Of course there are bad seeds, as in any profession, but the vast majority of teachers are passionate about working with young people and helping them to achieve their best.

How do I know? Amongst at least 200 teachers I have met and worked alongside in the last decade, I can only think of 2 or 3 who were questionable or clearly in the wrong job.

What an ignorant thing to say.

This reminds me of my maths teacher at school I she went quiet we knew we had majorly screwed up.

On the other hand the English teacher was a creep who should never have been allowed near teenage girls and spent half the lesson ranting, throwing the board rubber and on one occasion attempting to slap a girl across her face. He took enough of a swing for her to put her hand between his hand and her face.

I was never screamed at because I never warranted it... those that got shouted at deserved it and were told plenty of times to rectify the behaviour and didn't!

You obviously didn't go to the same schools as me. Some teachers were shouty, others were not, some teachers used the cane / ruler a lot, some never used it.

Yes, there was corporal punishment at my primary school too, although I don't think we can hold that against teachers in schools now.

I do think often children mishear raised, firm voice as someone shouting at them when actually it’s a controlled method to get the point across.

in some situations it is a good tactic. Especially from a staff member who is normally known for being quiet as it shows how seriously the incident is being taken.

It should not need to be said but if you don’t love teaching, regard your pupils and their parents as the enemy, and can not control your classroom with other than the implied threat of violence you are in the wring profession.

I agree with you about the threat of violence bit, but if you think you'd be able to entirely staff the country's schools with teachers who (still) love teaching, I'm afraid you are very sorely mistaken.

Absolutely not being unreasonable.
I don't shout at my children and they are the most well behaved children in both their classes.
People that shout have loss control and are trying to regain control using fear as a motivation.

I would only shout in dangerous situation so they could hear me.

It's completely lazy and shows no effort to use language and psychology to work out what the problem is.
Children used to get kaned and physically hurt but that's absolutely not acceptable so why should shouting be okay.

If adults can't use their brains to work with children, they shouldn't work with children.
I feel sorry for some of the children from reading other parents comments on here.